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Old 07-12-2007, 07:08 PM   #1486
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Originally Posted by GymBeam View Post
and where exactly did i insult you?

dont worry i stated my opinion.

if your a serious racer dont bother with these lipos, there about just as good as a good pack of gp3300's, but no way compare to the current batch of 4200Wc cells.

the end.
Thank god the end is here. Enjoy your serious racing and maybe us newbies will see the light someday.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:11 PM   #1487
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gymbeam , its to late there here , ray
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:20 PM   #1488
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you can't use discharge curves from a low 20 amp discharge rate to compare lipos to nimh. Lipos do not respond to constant current in a favorable way.
We've been using the 3200 LIPOs on our 800+ foot VELODROME for Oval Racing w/ the Novak 10.5 motor - running WIDE OPENED for 5 minutes...I would say that's a pretty constant 30+ amp load for over 300 seconds...and this batteries respond very well to that~and run about 60+ MPH
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:20 PM   #1489
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I didn't see any insults He merely stated the fact that the good NiMh packs are faster in stock and 19t... and in a big race you go for all the speed you can find I don't know how relevant that info is since LiPo isn't legal at a "serious" race yet but his facts are right.

Personally I love my 2 lipo packs for practice I beat the crap out of them and it saves my good packs for racing I just hate the fact that I have to bolt in all that weight to get my car to balance out
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:37 PM   #1490
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How many NiMH packs will you burn through keeping that voltage edge while the lowly LiPo consistently delivers its same voltage for hundreds of cycles, without fail? Yes, NiMH has more voltage in certain situations, and is probably faster in that sense. If that one thing is all that matters, stick with NiMH until they dry up.

LiPo will allow you get get your car to exactly the legal weight limit. Depending on your situation, especially with heavy brushless electronics, this may benefit you more than a little extra voltage if your car is heavy. You also have the option of shedding a few ounces if your club rules are flexible, and making up for any disadvantage you may perceive because of voltage.
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:04 AM   #1491
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Originally Posted by ottoman View Post
I didn't see any insults He merely stated the fact that the good NiMh packs are faster in stock and 19t... and in a big race you go for all the speed you can find I don't know how relevant that info is since LiPo isn't legal at a "serious" race yet but his facts are right.

Personally I love my 2 lipo packs for practice I beat the crap out of them and it saves my good packs for racing I just hate the fact that I have to bolt in all that weight to get my car to balance out
Yeah you're right, I'll just take my newbie ass to the Rookie Zone and talk about Lipos and Traxxas there. Just got annoyed after all the tech discussion going on to be hit with the newbies and bashers BS twice in the same thread. Don't really care though, more good information is now in this thread to balance the not so good...
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:32 AM   #1492
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Mainly because it doesn't reflect how that battery will operate in a real world environment. We don't race our cars at a low constant current, why do we expect our batteries to perform perfectly at unrealistic conditions? You are taking a test that gives dependable information from one type of battery and applying it to something new and expecting accurate results. And you can continue to insist otherwise as it seems your mind is made up anyway. The people who are using these batteries will continue to be happy without your approval of them.

And please, the lipo manufacturers are not saying you can't use them and have admitted they don't look as good at a 20A discharge. This has been discussed many times in many threads here. It's not some big conspiracy to convince people to overlook that info.
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and why not? because it doesnt reflect well on lipos? because the people who sell lipos say you can't?
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Originally Posted by kuzo View Post
This is the quote I was looking for:



This is from the "Viewing LiPo vs NiMH- Different perspective" thread from a few months ago and explains it far better than I can.

This is another graph from the TrackPower PDF... As was said before you would need to test against more than one pack of each to be representative. we don't really know the condition of the packs used.
Attached Thumbnails
Team Orion 3200mAh Race Spec LiPo-lipo-v-nimh-race-voltage-comparison-chart.jpg  
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Old 07-13-2007, 07:23 AM   #1493
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This is another graph from the TrackPower PDF... As was said before you would need to test against more than one pack of each to be representative. we don't really know the condition of the packs used.
The problem with either of the Trakpower graphs is that they are from Trakpower. Of course the manufacturer is going to compare against something that makes them look favorable. If you were looking at a discharge chart from Trinity to compare Trinity and Orion IB cells, do you think they'd show you the results where the Orion cells performed better? It's all PR.

What I think what would be a more beneficial test is something that will simulate the loads that are placed on a battery in racing conditions - variable. Anything available that is capable of that yet?
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:52 AM   #1494
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What I think what would be a more beneficial test is something that will simulate the loads that are placed on a battery in racing conditions - variable. Anything available that is capable of that yet?
That last graph was supposedly taken during an actual race using a telemetry system. I'm not saying it isn't biased, but it seems at least a little more reasonable. I believe the TrakPower cells generally show more voltage than the Orion/Kokam, but with less cycle life.

I received a note recently that TrakPower/Thunderpower is using two different cells, both from Enerland and Saehan-Enertech. I guess the Enerland cells have shown issues with cycle life, while Saehan-Enertech may be superior to even Kokam. It sure would be nice to know what cells you're getting. I'd happily pay a few extra bucks to try specific cells.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:15 PM   #1495
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How many NiMH packs will you burn through keeping that voltage edge while the lowly LiPo consistently delivers its same voltage for hundreds of cycles, without fail? Yes, NiMH has more voltage in certain situations, and is probably faster in that sense. If that one thing is all that matters, stick with NiMH until they dry up.

LiPo will allow you get get your car to exactly the legal weight limit. Depending on your situation, especially with heavy brushless electronics, this may benefit you more than a little extra voltage if your car is heavy. You also have the option of shedding a few ounces if your club rules are flexible, and making up for any disadvantage you may perceive because of voltage.
My my.... seems I agreed with you that my lipos are great cells but when I state that the NiMh have (at the moment) have a advantage on the track RACING in stock you guys go off

If I am racing with the fast guys and they are all running NiMh I am at a big disadvantage running my Orion 3200, power wise... sure they will last MUCH longer than my NiMh but I am a racer... I RACE... if I have the choice and its legal, I am running the faster car/motor/tire and battery I have. If I didn't care about winning or I was bashing I wouldn't own a NiMh.

As I stated... I own two 3200 LiPo Packs.... I like them I use them often but from a lot of track time with them I can say they are NOT as fast as my good NiMh!

As for balance unless you run a Losi lipo sucks... with the B/L in my car I need a extra 40 grams on the battery side with a NiMh and around 250 with a LiPo. I cant get anywhere close to the legal min weight with a B/L and ANY type cell so I cant see how LiPo will help me get to legal weight or "shedding a few onces as you state it will

Lighten up guys.... most agree that LiPo is superior in most ways (me included) but I am not closed minded... I can see they are not better in SOME racing applications... stock/13.5 at legal weight. That was all I was saying.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:44 PM   #1496
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ottoman - You are absolutely right about the stock class and likely 19T. Lipo will not have a beneficial impact in that area. I think it will take off in modified as the voltage edge of NiMH has less of an impact. Then once it has proven itself to not be as dangerous as assumed maybe then the concept of an easier to maintain and lower cost battery solution will outweigh the loss in voltage for the stock racer - who knows?

I have no intention of messing around in stock or 19T again so I guess the answer is easy for me.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:20 PM   #1497
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My my.... seems I agreed with you that my lipos are great cells but when I state that the NiMh have (at the moment) have a advantage on the track RACING in stock you guys go off.
NO! I clearly read that you hate LiPo, puppies and baby squirrels. Jihad! :-)
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:31 PM   #1498
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He shot Bambi's mom....
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:40 PM   #1499
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He shot Bambi's mom....
She was asking for it I heard....always running her mouth about lipos
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:08 PM   #1500
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NO! I clearly read that you hate LiPo, puppies and baby squirrels. Jihad! :-)
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