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Old 07-25-2006, 09:54 PM   #1
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Default Brushed and brushless equivalent ?

I have recently started racing. What I am trying to figure out is which brushless motors are the equivalent of brushed motors. I was at the LHS today and the guy told me the 4300 was equivalent to a stock motor and the 5800 was equivalent to a 19t. They were both novaks. Is this correct. I thought the 5800 was faster than that. I thought the 4300 was closer to a 19t. Thanks in advance.

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Old 07-25-2006, 10:16 PM   #2
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4300 is actually faster than a stock motor usually.....assuming it doesn't thermal. The 5800 is slower than a good 19t....


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Old 07-25-2006, 10:23 PM   #3
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In my experience, the 4300 is right between stock and 19T. Novak has a SS13.5 on the way that's supposed to be very much like a stock motor.

I can't make a 19T purr like Eddie can, but in my experience, the 5800 is considerably faster than any 19T. Most people say it's closer to a 15T or 17T. I've raced some pretty fast guys in 19T, and the 5800 noticeably faster.

The 4300 is 10.5 and the 5800 is 8.5. I imagine a 9.5 would be really close to a 19T, but there isn't one available yet.
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:26 PM   #4
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The 4300 is definitely faster than a stock motor. No comparison. However I have run my 4300 with an Orion LiPo in the 19t spec class at my track and have not been any slower. Now perhaps Eddie is referring to a good hand wound 19t when he says that the 5800 is slower, or perhaps I just don't know a thing about R/C motors. Or perhaps different tracks favor torque vs RPM. Any other opinions?
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:30 PM   #5
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If Eddie's 19T's run like a 5800, it's no wonder his signature is so long. :-)
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:50 PM   #6
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The 19t Reedy handouts at the 2004 Onroad nats were running faster laptimes than a 5800....

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Old 07-25-2006, 11:11 PM   #7
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i can beat my friend's brand new 11 turn w/ my 5800

im not sure..but i think it was a team orion motor revolution...
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:19 PM   #8
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The 4300 is very similar to a spec 19, lacks just a little in the rpm's, however with a lipo you don't notice. My fathers t4 with a lipo and a 4300 is just as fast (straight line) as my b4 running a komodo, or checkpoint money 19t with promatch gp 3700's. But the same can be said for my 19t when I add lipo instead of nimh. Then I am just as fast (straight line) as my friends xxx4 with a 5800 and nimh cells. So if you are running nimh cells the 4300 is slightly slower than a 19t, but faster than stock, and the 5800 is faster than a 19t. But remember that batteries make a huge difference, as well as how you have the car geared.
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Old 07-26-2006, 04:55 AM   #9
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The new Novak 13.5 is the stock brushless motor.I've been told the 5800 is the 19t equivalant. From personel experience I know the 13.5 is the stock brushless motor as I have been testing it out for serveral months.I'm running it with 3800' IB's.
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Old 07-26-2006, 05:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Guru
i can beat my friend's brand new 11 turn w/ my 5800

im not sure..but i think it was a team orion motor revolution...
OH, I just beat my buddy's 7T mod with a stock motor Come on, get real
Tell your friend spends some track time learn how to set up and gear a mod motor
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:22 AM   #11
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HMmm... the 5800 was never quite as fast as i 'd have liked..
It's like a mid.. 14-15t? It's kind of hard to describe as no-one really runs these wings around here...


It's either 9t-10t, 19t or stock.. I did run on track with a 12t and the 5800 couldn't keep up.

I've never seen a 19t as fast as Eddy is describing, but that's racing on a pretty high level. My old 5800 would pull a 19t easily. But that's the crux of the whole brushed debate. People keep saying.. xyz motor is faster than a BL.

Sure - i'm sure someone can certainly tune it to be.. or run a motor into the ground to do so. But the BL is fast consistently and without killing comms, ruining brushes, weakening springs, unsoldering itself..

But for the average guy, the BL is just so much faster..

(EddyO - no offense. I'll happily admit i've not seen a whole bunch of 19t cars on track. Whilst I can tune a motor, I cannot get it anywhere near as good as the top guys...)
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:47 AM   #12
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i guess it depends on the voltage that you apply to the motor. there is no way a 4300 is keeping up with a 19 in 1/12 with only 4.8 volts, the motor is only going to run 20,640rpm. Any stock motor will do that and you don't need to be eddie. lol

But the brushless does have more torque and the biggest part is that it does not have the drag the brushed motor has. I have run the 4300 with stock for a couple of month, and the notable difference is how far the car is through the corners. it gets around the corners faster and also out of the corner faster then a stock, but down the straight, I am not as fast as teh brushed motors. so if the track is mostly straight's you will have a good run for your money, with a lot of tight corners, the brushless will definatley kill the brushed.

and with the number from above, there is no way a 4300 will keep up with a 19t. no a 5800 gets closer, 27,840rpm at 4.8 volts. but then a good tuned 19 is closer to the 29,000. my guess is that torque would be about the same for 19t and 5800, but again the 5800 is like a low turn mod, not motor braking or drag in it at all.

the thing to remember is that applying more voltage to a brushless, at least to a point, the rpms increase linearly, to a brushed motor, they do not. so if you are looking at sedan with 7.2 or lipo with 7.4 the 4300 will do 30,960 - 31,820
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:18 AM   #13
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Im almost a second faster per lap (on 15-16 second laps) with a 19T versus my 4300.
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