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Old 07-21-2006, 03:49 PM   #721
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I agree! But I think that any EE worth his diploma should be able to design an ESC that can handle current 6-cell wattage and heat issues.
Sure and motor companies need to make motors that can run at 60,000rpm at 220Deg F (end of run can temp) and not shift winds, throw winds or blow apart comms.

Stock motor companies need to use magents that don't degauss on hot days, brushes that are super fast, don't chew up comms, last for more than one run and are not at all slower.

Can this be done...maybe. How long will it take and will it increase motor costs?

Is there a more simple soultion
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:37 PM   #722
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Adrian speedo's were bigger and as soon as they became smaller the overheating was an issue. Cars will have to go back to being a little wider to accomadate the electronics. And if the damn speedo manufacture is smart enough they can build a speedo that can handle the current. Full scale auto makers test materials till they can last a life time. Cars have gotten more reliable because the engineers searched for better materials and procedures to produce better cars. Guess what! now its R/C engineers time to show their knowledge and skill make better products that dont fail! Show us that the money we spent on thier product is "race" grade and not toy quality.

Dude how big are those checks you getting! Or is their an alterior motive to slowing the car down ? Guess MI2's work better at lowwer speeds!
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:42 PM   #723
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Or is their an alterior motive to slowing the car down ? Guess MI2's work better at lowwer speeds!
That's HELLA messed up!

Now I'm going to go and harrass STLNLST about it!!!!!!
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:07 PM   #724
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That's HELLA messed up!

Now I'm going to go and harrass STLNLST about it!!!!!!

Hey man just messing with my boy!
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:39 PM   #725
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Originally Posted by stonedgti
Let the technology evolve. If Mod is getting out of hand, people will switch to 19t...just as they are now. People will evolve to what they feel comfortable racing at. You don't need to take 2 cells out to do that. I personally want to see technologies pushed , and not pulled back. Without pushing the boundries, we will never improve.
I agree with you point here, but I'm left with a question... How to do you keep the end drivers out of the entry level class, Stock.....???? I think... NOT for sure... but I think you slow down stock to the point it is not appealing to the high end racer....
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:45 PM   #726
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I think about this topic a lot. I love racing electric, and I want to see what is best for sedan becasue for me it is the F1 of on-road racing.

We blame high voltage/high capacity batteries for the problems we face, but there was another innovation that took hold about the same time the battery war intensified. I wouldn't really call it an innovation because it is not, but it is something that was new to the touring car scene and is the cause of most of our grief.

It has been mentioned bfore in this thread. But elimination of this "innovation" would solve most of our problems, in my opinion.
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:50 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I agree! But I think that any EE worth his diploma should be able to design an ESC that can handle current 6-cell wattage and heat issues.
and the motors too?
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:52 PM   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I think about this topic a lot. I love racing electric, and I want to see what is best for sedan becasue for me it is the F1 of on-road racing.

We blame high voltage/high capacity batteries for the problems we face, but there was another innovation that took hold about the same time the battery war intensified. I wouldn't really call it an innovation because it is not, but it is something that was new to the touring car scene and is the cause of most of our grief.

It has been mentioned bfore in this thread. But elimination of this "innovation" would solve most of our problems, in my opinion.
brushless?
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:56 PM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybo
and the motors too?
Yes! Brushless motors have some issues but not nearly as bad as brushed. The key to improve the life in brushed motors is to reduce the RPM to a more acceptable level. This can be done with 4-cells. And it can be done with a change in magnet type which will produce a torquier (is that a word?:-)) motor than can pull a bigger gear.

Technical rules and ridiculous price limitations prevent this at the moment.

There are other solutions that can be implemented, but price limits affect them as well.
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:06 PM   #730
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indeed - the rules & regulations governing brushed motors are probably what got us to this point. if some of these restrictions were removed and motor manufacturers were able to crank out some seriously high quality gear, we'd be set for a little while longer.

incedentally - any ideas when those new orion endbells will be comercially available?

although if this happened... i wonder how long before we'd have to step back to 4 or 5 cells purely because of the speed? ... either way i would much rather be trying to find alternatives to slow down cars for being too fast than reducing power to stop things catching fire.
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Old 07-21-2006, 08:51 PM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
Adrian speedo's were bigger and as soon as they became smaller the overheating was an issue. Cars will have to go back to being a little wider to accomadate the electronics. And if the damn speedo manufacture is smart enough they can build a speedo that can handle the current. Full scale auto makers test materials till they can last a life time. Cars have gotten more reliable because the engineers searched for better materials and procedures to produce better cars. Guess what! now its R/C engineers time to show their knowledge and skill make better products that dont fail! Show us that the money we spent on thier product is "race" grade and not toy quality.

Dude how big are those checks you getting! Or is their an alterior motive to slowing the car down ? Guess MI2's work better at lowwer speeds!
The speedos we have now are way better tha the big stuff we ran before. The motors and batts we have now would smoke speedos from 5 years back.

Can the speedo manufacturers make better speedos? Sure...are you willing to pay for what you are asking for...maybe...maybe not. If you go for top level aerospace grade componenets it is really easy to build a $1000 speedo. Be careful what you ask for.

As far as the Mi2...don't be a hater because we turned you down when you asked us to sponsor you a few months ago (You started it take it like a man! ).
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:03 PM   #732
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Why is it bad to have rules or suggest building motors for the future? Our real cars get faster and faster and don't run on 47oct anymore. BUILD THE MOTOR that is better and let the run change to allow it in. Since most people don't actually race, present them with a motor that will be better.

None of this 4-cell crap. THe RTR market is what we all are racing for, or at least the guy that doesn't race every day. Making a 4-cell rull and cars designed for 4-cell will kill sales, or at least until I sell RTRs designed for 6-cell and market it as faster. I'm telling you that if it moves to 4-cell in a few years we'll have a few more problems than a few "pros" who have a motor failure and complain about it.

Let's make a step forward and think about next generation cells and motors. IFMAR and whoever are like state governments building roads and schools. THey look at "right now' and then build a road or building for "Now" but when it's done 5 or 10 years later it's already too small.

We can run 2 cell and move at the same boring speed, but NONE of us are in it for a close race. If you can't win at stock, maybe there's truck pulling or something. Don't slow down the people that want to go faster.

We run 19-turn 4-cell and it's as slow as stock...why not just run stock.


Make the products that are better. Don't make rules for worse products. IF the rule "they make product that fills the need at the highest margin" is true in 3 years we'll have cheaper speedos that can't handle the load. There would be no need to over-engineer a speedo, so quality would drop and prices stay the same. Happy manufacturer, racers crying again.

Speedo used to be able to handle 7-cell when it was legal. THey got rid of 7 and now we're maxed out in 6.
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:12 PM   #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB
Speedo used to be able to handle 7-cell when it was legal. THey got rid of 7 and now we're maxed out in 6.
When we ran 7 cell in Oval and in Off Road we ran 1200Mah batts and 16-19T mod motors. We were pulling 20A average or less and we would still smoke speedos.

Today 6 cell sedans are pulling 45A or more. If you want to test some old school speedos more power to ya. Just have a fire exstinguisher on hand. When the fets unsolder from the boards things get ugly fast
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:22 PM   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybo
indeed - the rules & regulations governing brushed motors are probably what got us to this point. if some of these restrictions were removed and motor manufacturers were able to crank out some seriously high quality gear, we'd be set for a little while longer.

incedentally - any ideas when those new orion endbells will be comercially available?

although if this happened... i wonder how long before we'd have to step back to 4 or 5 cells purely because of the speed? ... either way i would much rather be trying to find alternatives to slow down cars for being too fast than reducing power to stop things catching fire.
The speeds are high but on many tracks we are set up at max speeds for the track. In many, if not all cases we could go faster but dial back the speed a little because there is a point at which too much speed results in slower lap times.


As fas as speedos go, I don't think anyone is suggesting that old speedos do a better job than today's. What is suggested is that there is no reason for a speedo to be so small. Cars are underweight and the speedo side is underweight. Why not put more of the latest good stuff in a case that resembles the case sizes of the past? Extra fets will increase prices somewhat but if it is better it is better. R/C costs are TOO stable, prices have to go up sometimes.

Anyway I am sure a lot of testing will be done in the next few months.
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:37 PM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
The speedos we have now are way better tha the big stuff we ran before. The motors and batts we have now would smoke speedos from 5 years back.

Can the speedo manufacturers make better speedos? Sure...are you willing to pay for what you are asking for...maybe...maybe not. If you go for top level aerospace grade componenets it is really easy to build a $1000 speedo. Be careful what you ask for.

As far as the Mi2...don't be a hater because we turned you down when you asked us to sponsor you a few months ago (You started it take it like a man! ).

Actually you said yes! I never orderd! By the way It wasnt personal! You know I can take it. Maybe the schumacher isnt slow! You cant handle six cells, hell you can barely handle 4cells

Just pull over when I am lapping and watch!
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