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Old 07-20-2006, 09:38 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by POOKYT
You will get even more "tracktime" in a couple of weeks at Beat the Heat in Memphis bro!!!!!! On our monster track in 100 deg. air and 145 deg. track temps, I'll bet we see a few meltdowns from stock up to mod!

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LOL.... I guess I better take back the 10 sets of CS22 I bought for this race... I figured I would need a set for each heat, in this heat....

Looking forward to this race...
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Old 07-20-2006, 09:57 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by Mongo
In six years of racing I have never smoked a stock motor. But this summer I blew winds off two stock motors. These new batteries put out some serious power. Gearing was no different they any other week.

But man... motors really screw hard before they let out that last puff of smoke out.

You are so right about that, they seem to be their fastest right before grenading.
As for it being only the new cells that cause issues, I have been racing for over 20 years, and can remember the old days stock motors would only be good for about 3 runs. Mind you, they were fixed endbells and 36degrees of advance, but they still blew up !!
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Old 07-21-2006, 08:07 AM   #708
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Voting on the BRCA TC poll here in the UK it appears that 4 cell wouldn't be very popular amongst the national drivers. The votes have not all been cast yet but it gives an indication of way things are heading.

Remain at 6 cell - 83.1%
Reduce to 4 cell - 9.9%
Reduce to 5 cell - 7.0%

It would be interesting to know how the new ISTC TC World Champ sits on this matter
4, 5 or 6 cells, especially as he's from the UK.
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Old 07-21-2006, 08:30 AM   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Voting on the BRCA TC poll here in the UK it appears that 4 cell wouldn't be very popular amongst the national drivers. The votes have not all been cast yet but it gives an indication of way things are heading.

Remain at 6 cell - 83.1%
I've been beating my head against a brick wall trying to get club racers and regional series racers to accept LiPo batteries for a winter race series in the UK...it seems that some racers are just against change/advancement/development and this vote result (as it stands so far) does not surprise me in the least. The people who haven't tried it don't want to try it because of cost (fair enough) but they don't even seem to listen to people who HAVE tried the new thing (whether it's LiPo or 4-cell) and just want to continue doing their usual thing.

Considering that a BRCA rule change requires someone to attend an annual meeting (which only a tiny percentage of members can attend), table a motion, make arguments for it, get it seconded, then do a house vote. IMO it'll be years before things like LiPo, 4-cell, etc. are accepted in the UK.

Supposedly the manufacturers have been asked to provide actual figures and test results to IFMAR, so hopefully this is being done and we can let the rule-making professionals do their job. I agree with Reto that an open forum that lets any Joe Racer/Basher reply isn't a good place for industry heavyweights to get opinions, but with time-consuming reading it's possible to get an idea of the opinion of the average racer (which, as has been pointed out, is not in the majority of RC customers).
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Old 07-21-2006, 08:35 AM   #710
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I think at club level,not one clubs committee would try and push 4 cell racing for their next championship as the club level racer knows he or she has choice as to where they can race,if they dont like whats being offered they go elsewhere, simple as.
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Old 07-21-2006, 10:54 AM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Voting on the BRCA TC poll here in the UK it appears that 4 cell wouldn't be very popular amongst the national drivers. The votes have not all been cast yet but it gives an indication of way things are heading.

Remain at 6 cell - 83.1%
Reduce to 4 cell - 9.9%
Reduce to 5 cell - 7.0%

It would be interesting to know how the new ISTC TC World Champ sits on this matter
4, 5 or 6 cells, especially as he's from the UK.
I don't know how much of a sample that is but that's what I see at tracks. Nobody complaining that stock is too fast, or 19-turn.

To the guy who just blew up 2 motors, sounds like you finally made it up to speed of the rest of the people. You can have a stock motor last as long as the comm will take a cut, but then when you win the D-Main you'll either be upset or happy.

We have a system for slower people, it's call MAINS. Slow people aren't in the A. We DO NOT have to set up racing so that everybody feels like they are a winner. It's racing, there is ONE winner, that's it. Put some pride back into the lower mains and stop thinking people don't get satisfaction from being in the C-Main.

Maybe we should just name every main "The A-Main" and we'll all feel good?
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:10 PM   #712
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Originally Posted by DerekB
To the guy who just blew up 2 motors, sounds like you finally made it up to speed of the rest of the people. You can have a stock motor last as long as the comm will take a cut, but then when you win the D-Main you'll either be upset or happy.

So are you saying with setup and driving skill being equal its down to whoever spends the most on new motors and tires, say it isnt so. For a typical race day your going to spend 10 bucks to enter, 35 for one set of tires, and budget 15 bucks a week for a new motor and brushes. Thats without taking into account worn or busted parts, batts, gas to the race, ect. Ya I know if its to expensive just find somthing else to do and quit bitchin. If thats the only racing in town I'd still be there but I'm lucky I have options.
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Old 07-21-2006, 02:37 PM   #713
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The issue of speed in TC is very difficult indeed and i think alot of people confuse the issue. Yes the cars are fast and we all love that fact, the part we don't like is the heat generated and the possible failures. None of us want to slow down but do want the equipment to live longer. Should we allow new motor technology ? Or find some way to slow the cars with traction, downforce, brakes, or ?????
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Old 07-21-2006, 02:55 PM   #714
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Here the jist of all of this.

We can spend the next 2 years getting all the motor maufacturers (who dont all get along) to agree on all new brushed and brushless motors that can handle the wattage. Then all the sanctioning bodies have to draft new rules to cover these motors. Then all the speedo guys will have to build bigger more capable and more expensive speedos to handle the new motor. Then the manufacturers have to design new cars around these new bigger motors and bigger speedo. These changes involve hundreds of thousands of development dollars and they will all get passed on to the consumers.

or...

We can run 4 cells and keep everything we have with near ZERO added costs, no heat issues, better racing for novices, 19T as the new stock class and more people running in Mod.
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:06 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Here the jist of all of this.

We can spend the next 2 years getting all the motor maufacturers (who dont all get along) to agree on all new brushed and brushless motors that can handle the wattage. Then all the sanctioning bodies have to draft new rules to cover these motors. Then all the speedo guys will have to build bigger more capable and more expensive speedos to handle the new motor. Then the manufacturers have to design new cars around these new bigger motors and bigger speedo. These changes involve hundreds of thousands of development dollars and they will all get passed on to the consumers.

or...

We can run 4 cells and keep everything we have with near ZERO added costs, no heat issues, better racing for novices, 19T as the new stock class and more people running in Mod.
...and then watch the motor manufactureres develop motors specifically for 4 cell, and new smaller and 4 cell specific speed controls and new cars designed specifically for 4 cells......We are paying for it no matter which way we go.

ZERO costs are just not going to happen.....
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:10 PM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyrc
did you read the post? anytime there is a restrictive class, it puts more of an emphasis on premium equipment such as better batteries, new brushes every round, cutting the com (new motors) fresh tires....
Yes and no. Any racing class puts emphasis on premium equipment. The only thing that restrictions do is move where the money is spent. Look at F1 again as an example. The past years multiple rules were implemented restricting the number of tyres allowed to be used, the amount of test time per team, the amount of motors etc. All in an effort to reduce costs and level the playing field between the rich and budget teams (the latter actually worked to some extent). Were costs reduced? No, the budgets of the top teams have stayed exactly the same and have even increased here and there. They simply spend the money on other areas where they feel they can make the most progress. For instance aerodynamics has become a higher priority resulting in more and more teams getting their own windtunnel...
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:19 PM   #717
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Originally Posted by Advil
...and then watch the motor manufactureres develop motors specifically for 4 cell, and new smaller and 4 cell specific speed controls and new cars designed specifically for 4 cells......We are paying for it no matter which way we go.

ZERO costs are just not going to happen.....
You are right but Trinity will keep making new stock motors no matter how many batteries we run and you will buy them.

Brushless motors will keep getting better no matter how many batteries we run and you will buy them

Everyone will release new sedans in a year no matter how many cell we run and you will buy them.

The only difference in any of the above will be if we run 4 cell the product will develop to be more appropriate for 4 cell...making 4 cell faster.

This is what happened in the Oval market 6 years ago. Now the are FASTER than they were on 6 cells in ALL classes...Stock, 19 and Mod!

4 cell would get faster but any Electronic Engineer worth his diploma will tell you that we will never get back up to the 6 cell wattage outputs and heat issues on 4 cells.
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:32 PM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
4 cell would get faster but any Electronic Engineer worth his diploma will tell you that we will never get back up to the 6 cell wattage outputs and heat issues on 4 cells.
I agree! But I think that any EE worth his diploma should be able to design an ESC that can handle current 6-cell wattage and heat issues.
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:40 PM   #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
We can spend the next 2 years getting all the motor maufacturers...

or...

We can run 4 cells and keep everything we have with near ZERO added costs, ....
OR...

we can all go off-road racing at 1/4 the cost

OR...

we can keep the rules AND BATTERIES frozen for 5 years or longer, and keep the racing tight and our wallets filled.
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Old 07-21-2006, 03:42 PM   #720
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Let the technology evolve. If Mod is getting out of hand, people will switch to 19t...just as they are now. People will evolve to what they feel comfortable racing at. You don't need to take 2 cells out to do that. I personally want to see technologies pushed , and not pulled back. Without pushing the boundries, we will never improve.
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