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Old 07-19-2006, 10:20 AM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Stock motors have been "smoking" for as long as they have been around.
and here we go back to gearing again....
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:21 AM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Stock motors have been "smoking" for as long as they have been around.
2 years ago, if you overgear or undergear, you go slower. You need to really really overgear or undergear to smoke the motor (also, ingore the laptime which telling you "you gear wrong"). But nowday 1tooth make the different of smoke motor or fastest laptime (been there, done that). I think this perfectly explain the Watt problem also exist in stock class. And it perfectly explain why I don't think a T limit with today's 6cells rule will make any different.

Imaging what will happen if we got average 1.24V from factory battery, and v1.25V from matched. More smoke for sure..
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:23 AM   #618
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:29 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
2. If traction is limited with tires you have to use the throttle to control your car. I would say this would make driving an r/c car too difficult for 50% of all club racers. They would quit racing.
Adrian, you know with today's vehicles that we can set them up for anything. If we had harder tires, we would have to set the car up to compensate (since we'd be having to compensate for the harder tires, we wouldn't be going as fast around the track, and not pushing our stuff as far)

Depending on how it's setup, the car might even be a little easier to drive, just slower around the track in terms of lap times (kinda sounds like your 4-cell idea, huh? just a lot cheaper though)

Adrian, another question for you...If you think that a car that requires throttle control to drive would turn people off, then why is 2wd off-road still around and popular?
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:31 AM   #620
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People will always smoke Motors from overgearing.
My concern is the esc smoking also wich wasn't such an issue a few years back.

Quick question on gearing and motor timing. How do you know which to change if you need more top end for ex?
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:34 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
and here we go back to gearing again....
Let's not talk about how you can tech the gear ratio, my previous post already said that.

If you really have restrict gear ratio, I can imaging I see more and more dyno showup in pit. And more and more "use once and dump" motor showup in trashcan. Today's motor war is worse enough, fix gear ratio will only make it even worse.

Also, if you can have perfect gear ratio with 1.23V 4200 batt, what make you think the same gear ratio won't smoke your motor when you using 1.24V 4500 batt? Also, how you can set gear ratio when the track layout and length are different everywhere? And more, different motor has different power band, which motor would be the "standard" reference motor?
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:37 AM   #622
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When I raced oval on 6 cells stock motors could be smoked. After the change to 4 cell, still stock motors could be smoked. We even smoked speed controls back then.....LOL Anyone ever run an ATOM in a Sedan? LOL

I quit oval because even with mod it became no fun......sorry no rip. I quit racing 1/10 pan because no one wanted to race it anymore because they had bought sedans. So I bought one too....

Right now around here we get 60 to 80 racers at the club race. Very few are having "smoking motor" problems or speed control issues. We also have been racing (lately) in high (ambient 80-90, track 140+) temperatures. My motor failures have been my fault, not the motor's fault. I don't see the need to re-invent the wheel at this time just to justify the Mod Class....
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:39 AM   #623
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This may seem like a dim idea however, we could always design the tracks so that it wouldn't be much use overgearing the motors? (or we have to use a higher turn?) Just a thought as we all know what ever we do to the car manufactures and tech designers will find a way around it to provide a winning advantage? (And everyone would take try to get the advantage first!)

What do people think?
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:43 AM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttso
Let's not talk about how you can tech the gear ratio, my previous post already said that.

If you really have restrict gear ratio, I can imaging I see more and more dyno showup in pit. And more and more "use once and dump" motor showup in trashcan. Today's motor war is worse enough, fix gear ratio will only make it even worse.

Also, if you can have perfect gear ratio with 1.23V 4200 batt, what make you think the same gear ratio won't smoke your motor when you using 1.24V 4500 batt? Also, how you can set gear ratio when the track layout and length are different everywhere? And more, different motor has different power band, which motor would be the "standard" reference motor?
So, let's go 4 cells, it's the only solution to the problem.

Who wants to throw street tires and on road bodies on our buggies and race with 6 cells and have fun again??? Anyone with me???

Hahahahahaha.....
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:45 AM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
Adrian, you know with today's vehicles that we can set them up for anything. If we had harder tires, we would have to set the car up to compensate (since we'd be having to compensate for the harder tires, we wouldn't be going as fast around the track, and not pushing our stuff as far)

Depending on how it's setup, the car might even be a little easier to drive, just slower around the track in terms of lap times (kinda sounds like your 4-cell idea, huh? just a lot cheaper though)

Adrian, another question for you...If you think that a car that requires throttle control to drive would turn people off, then why is 2wd off-road still around and popular?
Yes you can compensate some traction lost with setup, but not all. Also, when you pick the wrong tire (harder or softer than optimized tire), the margin of setup decrease, means it's harder to get a drivable setup.

Some might said "oh cool, setup is part of skill". Yes setup is part of skill but it take a long long time to learn, you need to learn how to drive first, than how to setup. By reducing the margin of drivable setup, you just turn your head away from those new comer, means this hobby will be harder to start, means less new comer, means less new $, means "BAD".
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:55 AM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny

Who wants to throw street tires and on road bodies on our buggies and race with 6 cells and have fun again??? Anyone with me???

Hahahahahaha.....

I'm up for that!!! buggies were so much easier to set up and drive, oh the memories of pulling a wheelie down the straight with a 17x3?! Priceless!!
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:02 AM   #627
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The Good old days.............

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Old 07-19-2006, 11:09 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
So, let's go 4 cells, it's the only solution to the problem.

Who wants to throw street tires and on road bodies on our buggies and race with 6 cells and have fun again??? Anyone with me???

Hahahahahaha.....

Count me in when you guy`s figure this is right way...


In fact , its the only way we will be able to race mod with out blowing Escs and motor`s in Mod Sedan...

4 cell won`t help, cus Adrian will be the first one on the net pushing the new 4cell 3 wind`s motor`s that will blow every up and we will never make progress...

This is the truth ....

Believe or watch Sedan pass away as a fad....
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:22 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by Advil
It looks like a lose, lose to me. Why don't we just ask the Manufacturers for better equipment to run. Then we get to keep our fun and don't have to force anyone into "CHANGE". I think that this is the best way to deal with the problem and grow our hobby.
Do you mean like bigger more expensive speedo that wont fit in any of the cars we have now? How about bigger more expensive motors that CAN take the heat but sell for $200 street prices. All of these equipment exists now but implementing this would cause much more upheaval than just leaving 2 cells off your car.

All of the above require major car redesigns.

Going to 4 cells cost nothing. The cars we have right now can run 4 cells if you move the speedo or Rx over for balance.

New cars will come to better deal with 4 cells but new cars will come anyways wether we run 4 or 6 cells.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:32 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
<snip>My concern is the esc smoking also wich wasn't such an issue a few years back. <snip>
We did too smoke esc's. . .happened all the time. Friend of mine smoked a G12C3 running mod. I smoked a C10. When Tekin went on hiatus, and we moved to LRP (Quantums) we smoked the Q2s on occasion. Wasn't all that common, but we did it - maybe once a month, someone I knew would smoke an esc.

None of this "aww, the good old days when electronics had heat sinks and never ever went bad". . . I've had glitchy receivers (brand new), problematic controllers (treats me right for not going with what we KNEW ), smoking esc's (gotta let the bad smoke out), and motors that STANK (gotta pop that endcap so we can cut the com! )
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