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Old 07-19-2006, 08:45 AM   #601
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Why exactly would your club go under?

4 cells would improve the driveablity of your cars letting you drive harder more easily on your small track. The motors would last as long or longer. You could also motor up for more speed if you needed to with no increase in motor wear and still have better driveability.

The club would go under due to the cost of changing over to a 4 cell car, (the kit) i understand that in the long run (if battery cost remain stable) it will be more cost effective however a specifically design 4 cell car will be needed. Our club has about 40-50 members most of which run sedan, most of them would buy a car every 2-3 years so with an enforced change like this most of them wouldn't be able to compete due to having to buy a car straight away. (however it may push people into the 12th class)

Yes i agree that a four cell car would be a lot better to drive in terms of drivability!! Look at the difference it makes to a 12th scale?! And after a year or so they would be just as fast due to the cells catching up with extra capacity!! (so the problem starts again!!)
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:09 AM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Final drive ratio is completely enforceable.... Every form of motorsports has a gear rule....
Excuse my ignorance but i dont see any kind of gear rule in F1, motorcycle or Indy imposing a final drive ratio. Nascar does impose a final gear ratio only on ovals, but that s also a consequence of the appearance of restrictor plates.

The final ratio is dependent on the engine, track characteristics, aero rules.
It s not the other way around, it s not something you define beforehand and have all the other parameters adapt to it.

There is a trade-off between maximum speed and acceleration when we are talking about gearing. If you double the gear ratio, you double the acceleration but you also half the maximum speed. That's a pretty tough trade-off. You can have the best of both world only if you raise the engine red line or the torque curve. ..

That s why fixed ratio will not solve anything, you ll be back at tweaking engines, search for that special and expensive batttery and so on.. totally impractical and the gains are dubtious.

Plus, i believe we re not looking for a SPEC class, we re looking for a way to slow the cars down somewhat while still making this a competitive sport...

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Old 07-19-2006, 09:22 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by Patriiick
Plus, i believe we re not looking for a SPEC class, we re looking for a way to slow the cars down somewhat while still making this a competitive sport...

I don't belive we will slow the sport down in the long run, and why should we? More development should be put into making ESC and motors that can handle the power provided by the batterys of today and tomorrow. Only then will the sport remain a sport.

I do agree we should have classes for novices though, but for the top boys open it up and lets see what we can do?!
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:27 AM   #604
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Originally Posted by srhand
I don't belive we will slow the sport down in the long run, and why should we? More development should be put into making ESC and motors that can handle the power provided by the batterys of today and tomorrow. Only then will the sport remain a sport.

I do agree we should have classes for novices though, but for the top boys open it up and lets see what we can do?!
totally agree, it s just that we need see what we can come up with to slow down the pace a bit to allow technology to catch up, and make racing still manageable cost wise and speedwise for the masses.... and that s hard !!!
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:29 AM   #605
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Originally Posted by Patriiick
totally agree, it s just that we need see what we can come up with to slow down the pace a bit to allow technology to catch up, and make racing still manageable cost wise and speedwise for the masses.... and that s hard !!!

Tell me about it i've been thinking about it for what seems like ages now!!! (judging by my performance in the nationals i've done a dam fine job as well!!!)
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:33 AM   #606
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Still easy to tech... Unless you're using Prototype parts then you should be running in a Prototype Class.....
I don't need to run prototype, still I can get at least 4 different internal gear ratio out from my TA05. If you see the front over-drive or rear over-drive as different internal gear ratio, more combination. It might be easy to tech for some (definitely not me), but I'm 100% sure it's harder to tech than "ok he is running 4cells".
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:38 AM   #607
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This isn't about NEWBIES. This is about the ELITE at the WORLDS having electronics and motor problems.

Change to 4 cell and you take away some of the fun in our cars. Force people to "Step Up" and they will just step off......

It looks like a lose, lose to me. Why don't we just ask the Manufacturers for better equipment to run. Then we get to keep our fun and don't have to force anyone into "CHANGE". I think that this is the best way to deal with the problem and grow our hobby.

As far as the guys at the Worlds, you did it to yourselves. Don't make everyone else pay for your mistakes.
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:42 AM   #608
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Too much HP is the equalizer, there's only so much HP you can put to the ground. Going to 4 cells in cars that already get amazing traction is going to put much more emphasis on batteries and motors.

Has anyone ever read SCCA rules pertaining to each car? There is a gear rule, there are certain parts that are allowed to be changed from what the OEM supplied.

There is no 1 real good answer to all of this.

If we are truely following the "real world" There should be no modified TC...
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:51 AM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srhand
The club would go under due to the cost of changing over to a 4 cell car, (the kit) i understand that in the long run (if battery cost remain stable) it will be more cost effective however a specifically design 4 cell car will be needed. Our club has about 40-50 members most of which run sedan, most of them would buy a car every 2-3 years so with an enforced change like this most of them wouldn't be able to compete due to having to buy a car straight away. (however it may push people into the 12th class)

Yes i agree that a four cell car would be a lot better to drive in terms of drivability!! Look at the difference it makes to a 12th scale?! And after a year or so they would be just as fast due to the cells catching up with extra capacity!! (so the problem starts again!!)
6cells to 4cells DOES NOT mean your current chassis are useless! Most of time you only need to move your ESC or RX to the battery side, than that's it. If you run saddle-pack chassis (FK04) or centerline battery chassis (JRXS), you don't even need to move your elec.

There are pretty much no cost at all. Of course, if you run 27T stock, you might consider to buy 19T to get speed back, and 19T might consider to buy 8T to get speed back. But hey.. you just stepup to a higher class with cheaper cost (less wear on everything, cheaper battery), wasn't that great?
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:55 AM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
This isn't about NEWBIES. This is about the ELITE at the WORLDS having electronics and motor problems.

Change to 4 cell and you take away some of the fun in our cars. Force people to "Step Up" and they will just step off......

It looks like a lose, lose to me. Why don't we just ask the Manufacturers for better equipment to run. Then we get to keep our fun and don't have to force anyone into "CHANGE". I think that this is the best way to deal with the problem and grow our hobby.

As far as the guys at the Worlds, you did it to yourselves. Don't make everyone else pay for your mistakes.
It's not just about elite! 2years ago I rarely see anyone smoke their motor. Now I see at least 1 smoke motor every Main, and maybe 1 smoke ESC every race. This is problem is not only happen on elite! It happened on general racer as well!
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:57 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttso
6cells to 4cells DOES NOT mean your current chassis are useless! Most of time you only need to move your ESC or RX to the battery side, than that's it. If you run saddle-pack chassis (FK04) or centerline battery chassis (JRXS), you don't even need to move your elec.

There are pretty much no cost at all. Of course, if you run 27T stock, you might consider to buy 19T to get speed back, and 19T might consider to buy 8T to get speed back. But hey.. you just stepup to a higher class with cheaper cost (less wear on everything, cheaper battery), wasn't that great?

Might give this a go with my 12th cells and see what happens, (it is a very tight, twisty and small track so i wont need the speed!)
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:00 AM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Too much HP is the equalizer, there's only so much HP you can put to the ground. Going to 4 cells in cars that already get amazing traction is going to put much more emphasis on batteries and motors.

Has anyone ever read SCCA rules pertaining to each car? There is a gear rule, there are certain parts that are allowed to be changed from what the OEM supplied.

There is no 1 real good answer to all of this.

If we are truely following the "real world" There should be no modified TC...
Just like I said previously, less power only let you try to get more power, less drivability will make you quit the hobby.

Indeed there is no "1 perfect solution" for our problem. However, the solution must be realistic (no hard tech, won't hurt drivability, not expensive, not impact this hobby's $-balance model). IMO it's 4cells.
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:03 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by ttso
IMO it's 4cells.
Or an 11-turn armature rather than a 7-turn.
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:06 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Or an 11-turn armature rather than a 7-turn.
Even stock have smoking motor and smoking ESC...
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:10 AM   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttso
Even stock have smoking motor and smoking ESC...
Stock motors have been "smoking" for as long as they have been around.
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