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Old 07-18-2006, 10:35 PM   #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
..7.4 too high.
Have you looked at some of the voltages per cell of NiMh lately?
1.228 * 6 = 7.368
1.248 * 6 = 7.488

Lipo is just more consistant 7.4 throughout its discharge.
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Old 07-18-2006, 11:08 PM   #572
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how much heat are the esc's actually generating?
i was always under the impression that the worst of the heat is coming to the esc via the motor wires.

even if you fix the esc's to be more reliable the motors are destroying themselfs.
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Old 07-18-2006, 11:13 PM   #573
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as far as i'm aware, brushed speedys arnt really the problem... i know i killed mine recently, but i'm not sure i'm ready to attribute it purely to the too much power scenario that we're currently discussing.

the speedy issue is more centered around the current generation of brushless i think
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Old 07-18-2006, 11:19 PM   #574
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The proposed problem is: Too much usable power

Adrian's proposed solution: Take away power

My proposed solution: Limit the power usable via: SOMEHOW compromising the handling of our cars

Last edited by BlackKat; 07-18-2006 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 07-18-2006, 11:50 PM   #575
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get rid of the bubble top wedge bodies. go back to squarish realistic touring cars. also cut a 3/8" (9.5mm) strip out of the lower part of the front windshield or/and possibly upper part of the rear windshield. this will get more airflow while disturbing (or possibly enhancing) some of the downforce.

and the biggest thing, when was the last time you saw a real touring car spoiler as tall as ours? lets get that going towards realistic as well.

let's see what the peanut gallery has to say about this..
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:34 AM   #576
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I disagree with going back to boxy bodies...

Since when Real touring cars go back to boxy 'Good ol Volvo' style??

I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:38 AM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben.C
I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
Until you have to buy the 4-cell optimised chassis and the 4-cell motors....

Then the price of 4 cell packs will eventually creep up....

And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:41 AM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
Until you have to buy the 4-cell optimised chassis and the 4-cell motors....

Then the price of 4 cell packs will eventually creep up....

And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
Gotta look at it on the long run...Everything has initial cost...

And implimenting of the 4 cell will be easier for beginners to adopt. For them its just drop 2 cells... Simple.
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Old 07-19-2006, 03:42 AM   #579
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We need a compromise from Ifmar, they are top of the RC and can push ROAR, JRMCA and EFRA into a certain direction.

Why did Efra stop with the 12 turn motor limit --> because batteries became more important I guess.
Now we have a motor/esc heat problem and enough runtime to last another 2 minutes but we can't because we are overheating.

I would suggest compromise like a 10turn-ish motor (or equal power), a batterie limitation in voltage and capacity, or freeze the maximum capacity over certain period of time.
Problem: Race organisations need to be able to check if rules are followed. But if manufacturers are forced in a direction and produce likewise these items don't need control or need less control.

IFMAR choose a motor, batterietype (capacity voltage) freeze the regulations for a longer period of time and investigate during this time the next steps for a next reg.
If you keep changing the regs each year or half a year racers will spend to much and most of them will eventually leave the hobby. Only because the cost will make them go racing less and less and less and never again...

I can say for myself that the interest in the hobby is reduced because of the uncertainties that we face now... Batteries are changing every 2 months, brushed(which wind do I need for which circuit) or brushless(the choice here is expanding aswell, different winds and magnets to tune) So I bought nothing new and am racing(altough a lot less) my old stuff untill it's gone or untill we have some regulations that make sense and don't change like the wind turns

Don't Forget for 99,9% of us this is a HOBBY
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:45 AM   #580
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Even a change to 4 cells is not going to make a difference with out a GEARING rule!!!

Everyone is going to test their 4 cells and come back and say it was great... But they are going to test the motors geared properly... First race the (so called) Pro's will be overgearing the 4 cell motors!
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:50 AM   #581
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totally unenforceable:

-Imagine teching X number of different chassis, each with their own internal ratios, before each heat ? in 64 and 48 ?
-What about those who change pulleys (415 for instance) ?
- Means this will be a battery war instead, going to the batts with the highest voltage..

Oh that s gonna be a lot of fun... this is an open door to make races even more unfair and suspicion prone.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:04 AM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben.C
Since when Real touring cars go back to boxy 'Good ol Volvo' style??
Since when did they all have bubble cabins? and wings a foot tall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben.C
I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
While I don't disagree with cutting cells.. You could practice with those packs, but then you could be competitive with matched cells just like it takes now. I don't know anyone who would spend those extra bucks on a good set of matched batteries that would be willing to up and break them. Only after a month or two when they would normally turn the pack around (read: sell a decent pack to a new racer) and use that money towards new packs could I see somebody breaking them up for practice packs instead. but fresh cells sound better anyways...
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:12 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriiick
totally unenforceable:

-Imagine teching X number of different chassis, each with their own internal ratios, before each heat ? in 64 and 48 ?
-What about those who change pulleys (415 for instance) ?
- Means this will be a battery war instead, going to the batts with the highest voltage..

Oh that s gonna be a lot of fun... this is an open door to make races even more unfair and suspicion prone.
Final drive ratio is completely enforceable.... Every form of motorsports has a gear rule....
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:25 AM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
This will never end. It will always be like this and always has. That's the cycle of racing. The only time it would ever "freeze" is when everything is SPECCED. If we listened to some of the voices on this thread, the t-spec class would be the most popular class in the world.. even though there was only 1 sign up at the one large event to offer it.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:36 AM   #585
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With all of this happening itís not really good for the sport as a whole. I donít know what everyone else or the governing bodies think however changing the cars and the number of cells is just delaying the inevitable.

Think about it, when a lot of us started racing cells were 7.2v 1200Ma six packs and it was possible for a 27 turn motor to dump. Then came the development of cells and motors to both increase speed and run time, we went to 1700ma and so on and so. Yes itís come to such a point that yes we are generating too much heat from cells and motors and you do have to change brushes every couple of runs however this is motor sport and most of the rules are there to say make a car, batteries, motors, tyre that fits the rules in place but within this anything goes.

If we did change to four cells how long would it be till the four cells were in the same situation as the 6? So what do we do then take it down to two cells? Course we couldnít do this at the moment as the technology isnít in place to do this however it will only be around the corner.

The only true way of combating the heat issue is through technology as it will keep coming up again and again, we all have to make and design ways of running our cars so that they last 5 minuets and go as fast as they can for those 5 minuets. Changing the carís restricting the motor and the amount of cells is avoiding the issue and making an obstacle for manufacturers to both get around and sell a shed load of new cars.

At club level racing is not so fast and doesnít have the heat problems as a lot of drivers will not gear there cars to the extent that it creates this problem (at my local club Iíve had a v2 dynasty and its lasted weeks let alone runs). I think a lot of thought needs to be put in before a major change is put into place like changing from 6 to 4 cells as the amount of people running at club level will decrease hence the number of people racing will decrease!! As they would have to buy another car, (myself Iíd only race 12th scale and go back to off road in the summer!)

At the top level this really isnít a problem, what Iíd propose is to let the proís have a set of rules (to create a true open class)

e.g. size of car, body rules such as we have today, weight of car and then a free role to do what they like as long as none of the rules stated previously are broken, I include use any cells or motors.

Most of these people have the backing of the manufacturers so let the technology advance and let these people test it for the rest of us.

If we do need to slow the cars down to avoid the over heating problems we could always increase the race times for the time been so that cooling systems and motors and batteries can cope with the heat generated. I donít see changing the design of the cars to a 4 cell model as an option.
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