IFMAR AGM in Collegno - Future of ISTC
#573
as far as i'm aware, brushed speedys arnt really the problem... i know i killed mine recently, but i'm not sure i'm ready to attribute it purely to the too much power scenario that we're currently discussing.
the speedy issue is more centered around the current generation of brushless i think
the speedy issue is more centered around the current generation of brushless i think
#574
The proposed problem is: Too much usable power
Adrian's proposed solution: Take away power
My proposed solution: Limit the power usable via: SOMEHOW compromising the handling of our cars
Adrian's proposed solution: Take away power
My proposed solution: Limit the power usable via: SOMEHOW compromising the handling of our cars
Last edited by BlackKat; 07-18-2006 at 10:31 PM.
#575
get rid of the bubble top wedge bodies. go back to squarish realistic touring cars. also cut a 3/8" (9.5mm) strip out of the lower part of the front windshield or/and possibly upper part of the rear windshield. this will get more airflow while disturbing (or possibly enhancing) some of the downforce.
and the biggest thing, when was the last time you saw a real touring car spoiler as tall as ours? lets get that going towards realistic as well.
let's see what the peanut gallery has to say about this..
and the biggest thing, when was the last time you saw a real touring car spoiler as tall as ours? lets get that going towards realistic as well.
let's see what the peanut gallery has to say about this..
#576
Tech Master
I disagree with going back to boxy bodies...
Since when Real touring cars go back to boxy 'Good ol Volvo' style??
I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
Since when Real touring cars go back to boxy 'Good ol Volvo' style??
I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
#577
Originally Posted by Ben.C
I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
Then the price of 4 cell packs will eventually creep up....
And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
#578
Tech Master
Originally Posted by BlackKat
Until you have to buy the 4-cell optimised chassis and the 4-cell motors....
Then the price of 4 cell packs will eventually creep up....
And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
Then the price of 4 cell packs will eventually creep up....
And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
And implimenting of the 4 cell will be easier for beginners to adopt. For them its just drop 2 cells... Simple.
#579
Tech Apprentice
We need a compromise from Ifmar, they are top of the RC and can push ROAR, JRMCA and EFRA into a certain direction.
Why did Efra stop with the 12 turn motor limit --> because batteries became more important I guess.
Now we have a motor/esc heat problem and enough runtime to last another 2 minutes but we can't because we are overheating.
I would suggest compromise like a 10turn-ish motor (or equal power), a batterie limitation in voltage and capacity, or freeze the maximum capacity over certain period of time.
Problem: Race organisations need to be able to check if rules are followed. But if manufacturers are forced in a direction and produce likewise these items don't need control or need less control.
IFMAR choose a motor, batterietype (capacity voltage) freeze the regulations for a longer period of time and investigate during this time the next steps for a next reg.
If you keep changing the regs each year or half a year racers will spend to much and most of them will eventually leave the hobby. Only because the cost will make them go racing less and less and less and never again...
I can say for myself that the interest in the hobby is reduced because of the uncertainties that we face now... Batteries are changing every 2 months, brushed(which wind do I need for which circuit) or brushless(the choice here is expanding aswell, different winds and magnets to tune) So I bought nothing new and am racing(altough a lot less) my old stuff untill it's gone or untill we have some regulations that make sense and don't change like the wind turns
Don't Forget for 99,9% of us this is a HOBBY
Why did Efra stop with the 12 turn motor limit --> because batteries became more important I guess.
Now we have a motor/esc heat problem and enough runtime to last another 2 minutes but we can't because we are overheating.
I would suggest compromise like a 10turn-ish motor (or equal power), a batterie limitation in voltage and capacity, or freeze the maximum capacity over certain period of time.
Problem: Race organisations need to be able to check if rules are followed. But if manufacturers are forced in a direction and produce likewise these items don't need control or need less control.
IFMAR choose a motor, batterietype (capacity voltage) freeze the regulations for a longer period of time and investigate during this time the next steps for a next reg.
If you keep changing the regs each year or half a year racers will spend to much and most of them will eventually leave the hobby. Only because the cost will make them go racing less and less and less and never again...
I can say for myself that the interest in the hobby is reduced because of the uncertainties that we face now... Batteries are changing every 2 months, brushed(which wind do I need for which circuit) or brushless(the choice here is expanding aswell, different winds and magnets to tune) So I bought nothing new and am racing(altough a lot less) my old stuff untill it's gone or untill we have some regulations that make sense and don't change like the wind turns
Don't Forget for 99,9% of us this is a HOBBY
#580
Even a change to 4 cells is not going to make a difference with out a GEARING rule!!!
Everyone is going to test their 4 cells and come back and say it was great... But they are going to test the motors geared properly... First race the (so called) Pro's will be overgearing the 4 cell motors!
Everyone is going to test their 4 cells and come back and say it was great... But they are going to test the motors geared properly... First race the (so called) Pro's will be overgearing the 4 cell motors!
#581
Tech Addict
iTrader: (3)
totally unenforceable:
-Imagine teching X number of different chassis, each with their own internal ratios, before each heat ? in 64 and 48 ?
-What about those who change pulleys (415 for instance) ?
- Means this will be a battery war instead, going to the batts with the highest voltage..
Oh that s gonna be a lot of fun... this is an open door to make races even more unfair and suspicion prone.
-Imagine teching X number of different chassis, each with their own internal ratios, before each heat ? in 64 and 48 ?
-What about those who change pulleys (415 for instance) ?
- Means this will be a battery war instead, going to the batts with the highest voltage..
Oh that s gonna be a lot of fun... this is an open door to make races even more unfair and suspicion prone.
#582
Originally Posted by Ben.C
Since when Real touring cars go back to boxy 'Good ol Volvo' style??
Originally Posted by Ben.C
I'm with Adrain...Cut down on power...I save money, I can make 3 packs of 4 cells from 2 pack of 6s. No Brainer...
#583
Originally Posted by Patriiick
totally unenforceable:
-Imagine teching X number of different chassis, each with their own internal ratios, before each heat ? in 64 and 48 ?
-What about those who change pulleys (415 for instance) ?
- Means this will be a battery war instead, going to the batts with the highest voltage..
Oh that s gonna be a lot of fun... this is an open door to make races even more unfair and suspicion prone.
-Imagine teching X number of different chassis, each with their own internal ratios, before each heat ? in 64 and 48 ?
-What about those who change pulleys (415 for instance) ?
- Means this will be a battery war instead, going to the batts with the highest voltage..
Oh that s gonna be a lot of fun... this is an open door to make races even more unfair and suspicion prone.
#584
Originally Posted by BlackKat
And, we'll work ourselves back into the same rut we're in right now....
#585
Tech Initiate
With all of this happening it’s not really good for the sport as a whole. I don’t know what everyone else or the governing bodies think however changing the cars and the number of cells is just delaying the inevitable.
Think about it, when a lot of us started racing cells were 7.2v 1200Ma six packs and it was possible for a 27 turn motor to dump. Then came the development of cells and motors to both increase speed and run time, we went to 1700ma and so on and so. Yes it’s come to such a point that yes we are generating too much heat from cells and motors and you do have to change brushes every couple of runs however this is motor sport and most of the rules are there to say make a car, batteries, motors, tyre that fits the rules in place but within this anything goes.
If we did change to four cells how long would it be till the four cells were in the same situation as the 6? So what do we do then take it down to two cells? Course we couldn’t do this at the moment as the technology isn’t in place to do this however it will only be around the corner.
The only true way of combating the heat issue is through technology as it will keep coming up again and again, we all have to make and design ways of running our cars so that they last 5 minuets and go as fast as they can for those 5 minuets. Changing the car’s restricting the motor and the amount of cells is avoiding the issue and making an obstacle for manufacturers to both get around and sell a shed load of new cars.
At club level racing is not so fast and doesn’t have the heat problems as a lot of drivers will not gear there cars to the extent that it creates this problem (at my local club I’ve had a v2 dynasty and its lasted weeks let alone runs). I think a lot of thought needs to be put in before a major change is put into place like changing from 6 to 4 cells as the amount of people running at club level will decrease hence the number of people racing will decrease!! As they would have to buy another car, (myself I’d only race 12th scale and go back to off road in the summer!)
At the top level this really isn’t a problem, what I’d propose is to let the pro’s have a set of rules (to create a true open class)
e.g. size of car, body rules such as we have today, weight of car and then a free role to do what they like as long as none of the rules stated previously are broken, I include use any cells or motors.
Most of these people have the backing of the manufacturers so let the technology advance and let these people test it for the rest of us.
If we do need to slow the cars down to avoid the over heating problems we could always increase the race times for the time been so that cooling systems and motors and batteries can cope with the heat generated. I don’t see changing the design of the cars to a 4 cell model as an option.
Think about it, when a lot of us started racing cells were 7.2v 1200Ma six packs and it was possible for a 27 turn motor to dump. Then came the development of cells and motors to both increase speed and run time, we went to 1700ma and so on and so. Yes it’s come to such a point that yes we are generating too much heat from cells and motors and you do have to change brushes every couple of runs however this is motor sport and most of the rules are there to say make a car, batteries, motors, tyre that fits the rules in place but within this anything goes.
If we did change to four cells how long would it be till the four cells were in the same situation as the 6? So what do we do then take it down to two cells? Course we couldn’t do this at the moment as the technology isn’t in place to do this however it will only be around the corner.
The only true way of combating the heat issue is through technology as it will keep coming up again and again, we all have to make and design ways of running our cars so that they last 5 minuets and go as fast as they can for those 5 minuets. Changing the car’s restricting the motor and the amount of cells is avoiding the issue and making an obstacle for manufacturers to both get around and sell a shed load of new cars.
At club level racing is not so fast and doesn’t have the heat problems as a lot of drivers will not gear there cars to the extent that it creates this problem (at my local club I’ve had a v2 dynasty and its lasted weeks let alone runs). I think a lot of thought needs to be put in before a major change is put into place like changing from 6 to 4 cells as the amount of people running at club level will decrease hence the number of people racing will decrease!! As they would have to buy another car, (myself I’d only race 12th scale and go back to off road in the summer!)
At the top level this really isn’t a problem, what I’d propose is to let the pro’s have a set of rules (to create a true open class)
e.g. size of car, body rules such as we have today, weight of car and then a free role to do what they like as long as none of the rules stated previously are broken, I include use any cells or motors.
Most of these people have the backing of the manufacturers so let the technology advance and let these people test it for the rest of us.
If we do need to slow the cars down to avoid the over heating problems we could always increase the race times for the time been so that cooling systems and motors and batteries can cope with the heat generated. I don’t see changing the design of the cars to a 4 cell model as an option.