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Old 07-17-2006, 08:22 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Becuase its not fun. Because harder tires increase the gap between the guys with setup skill and those who don't.
Well, isn't that a good thing? It seems like any person who can dump money into their car and run a clean line can get a spot in the A main of stock (atleast at the club level in my area)

I don't think electronics are the problem. The cars are. Since the cars handle so well, we are having to beat each other by pushing our equipment further than the next guy.

Make driving skill matter more, and equipment matter less.
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:25 PM   #527
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does anybody actually know, for 100% sure, that 4 cells = 4 and 5 turn motors? i hear a lot of people saying that's what's going to happen.... and yet the only real world testing i've heard being conducted has been done with 7 turn motors... and is still on very similar pace to 6 cell 7 turns.

gav - you run a brushless, 4 and 5 turn shoudlnt matter to you :P

will do some testing on sunday at templestowe, gonna race 12th scale there anyway so will have all my 4 cell stuff
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:21 PM   #528
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wildcherry, amen to 2wd.. and blackkat i think we think alike... the manufacturers certainly can't hate the fact that the equipment matters a whole lot right now... offroad=all driver.. onroad=not as much...
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:51 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by King-G
hence my problem with going to 4 cell TTSO

the use of 4turn and 5 turn motors! that is rediculous, and surely we will face the same problems we have now..thrown winds due to excessive RPM, arms going out of balance, and heat due to excessive current draw.

reduce the cells, and racers will use more powerfull motors, and were back to a runtime war...

for the first time we have excess runtime, and were looking for ways to take it back to the old ways of spending fortunes on batteries for those last few seconds of runtime...
You miss a point..

Even 4cells go as fast as 6cells go today. The car will still be around 150g lighter than 6cells. That means the load on everything will greatly reduce. So you probably will get the same laptime with less Watt consumption, and surly less wear on parts, less arc on comm/brush, less tire wear, and cheaper battery pack.

It's not just "if 4cells goes as fast as 6cells, problem will be the same". Even it does go as fast as 6cells, 4cells still save lots things due to less weight and less votage.
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:58 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybo
does anybody actually know, for 100% sure, that 4 cells = 4 and 5 turn motors? i hear a lot of people saying that's what's going to happen.... and yet the only real world testing i've heard being conducted has been done with 7 turn motors... and is still on very similar pace to 6 cell 7 turns.

gav - you run a brushless, 4 and 5 turn shoudlnt matter to you :P

will do some testing on sunday at templestowe, gonna race 12th scale there anyway so will have all my 4 cell stuff
I know 4cells 6x2T is close but still a bit slower than 6cells 8x1T. But I don't know 4/5T motor as I cant find any yet. If I can find one, I will give it a try.

Most of major motor maker only carry 6T/7T motor. I guess you need to place custom order to get 4T/5T...
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:03 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
Well, isn't that a good thing? It seems like any person who can dump money into their car and run a clean line can get a spot in the A main of stock (atleast at the club level in my area)

I don't think electronics are the problem. The cars are. Since the cars handle so well, we are having to beat each other by pushing our equipment further than the next guy.

Make driving skill matter more, and equipment matter less.

if you want to do more driving, go to mod or at least 19 turn like you said the cars handle so good you guys end up abusing the motors. You won't have that problem in mod since you can still light up the tires.

Tires are a biggest part of setting up a car so i don't think you will convince any body to go with tires with less grip.
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:16 PM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
if you want to do more driving, go to mod or at least 19 turn like you said the cars handle so good you guys end up abusing the motors. You won't have that problem in mod since you can still light up the tires.

Tires are a biggest part of setting up a car so i don't think you will convince any body to go with tires with less grip.
I think your missing my point a tad bit. The problem is that the cars handle too well at all levels (stock & 19t for us club racers, mod for the world's guys) If we can compromise the handling of the cars, then we wouldn't be able to push our equipment to the limits as badly (which is causing the failures) it'd be more of a driving/setup contest than a who can push the limits farther contest.

As for convincing people to go with tires with less grip, it'd have to be forcing people to going to tires with less grip. People are going to have to realise their wallet advantage is going to have to take a hit if we want to keep the hobby alive.
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:40 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
with the voltage of the current cells. it is burning up speedo's, brushes, unsoldering wires, I guess 6 cells with the current amps draw is generating too much heat. I would guess thats why you didn't see anyone at the worlds with out multiple fans one on the motor and the other on the speedo.

I just hope that Ifmar also adjusts the min weight lower to compensate
for less punch of 4 cell.

On another note. We had Tony Neisenger racing 4 cell 1/12 at our nitro track and they were putting faster lap times than the Pro nitro sedan class.
I agree with Matt-going down to 4cell.
I broke 2 ESCs at the world.(I used cooling fans, of course)
My car ran into the wall at top speed, Luckily I broke only few part.
4 cell racing is not that slow. The top speed is almost like 6cell-7turn.
I hope that IFMAR adjusts the min weight slightly lower like 1500g.(current min weight is 1522g)
So we can use 1,000mAh 7.4V lipo batteries + 6V regulator for servo power.
We will not concern about charging receiver pack at least one day.

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Last edited by Ryan Lee; 07-17-2006 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:10 AM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King-G
hence my problem with going to 4 cell TTSO

the use of 4turn and 5 turn motors! that is rediculous, and surely we will face the same problems we have now..thrown winds due to excessive RPM, arms going out of balance, and heat due to excessive current draw.

reduce the cells, and racers will use more powerfull motors, and were back to a runtime war...

for the first time we have excess runtime, and were looking for ways to take it back to the old ways of spending fortunes on batteries for those last few seconds of runtime...
Exactly!
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Old 07-18-2006, 02:04 AM   #535
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Racing is a risk in some ways. Everytime your car goes on the track you cannot guarantee its going to finish can you? Is overtaking too risky too,just like running 6 cells and a hot wind mod motor? Some people like the unexpected part of racing. Sometimes I just accept that things didnt work out and look to my next race. Thats racing.


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Old 07-18-2006, 02:14 AM   #536
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TC3team : to blatantly copy enzo ferrari, i would say that a car has to break down right after you cross the transponder loop for the last time.
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:25 AM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriiick
TC3team : to blatantly copy enzo ferrari, i would say that a car has to break down right after you cross the transponder loop for the last time.
I've fractured a graphite rear hub on the first corner but still managed to be the fastest driver in the heat but that would be much harder I went to replace the hub and the bearing literally fell out,lol.

I've seen a mouse dart out onto the track mid race and swerved to avoid it! But the best one was seeing a pinion gear come out of a car and overtake it!!!! Some things in life you cannot prepare yourself for ey

In all seriousness though,if we know we are looking for that little extra power on the track that really does put a big demand on your equipment expect something to go bang sooner... or later if youre lucky.

How dull would racing be if we knew its outcome before we even put the car on the track?!

Whatever limits an r/c has,there will always be people wanting to find the edge. Thats racing! I've learnt not to get too involved in the politics of racing and enjoy it. Sure,that doesnt meen I don't want an unreliable or slow car

Will I just settle for a sub standard 27t motor too... Don't think so lol!

If you want to race mod,go ahead and see some smoke when its all pushed too far.

Want a happy medium? Try 19t....
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Old 07-18-2006, 04:01 AM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Want a happy medium? Try 19t....
Ok. So all the "elite" drivers that are fed up with replacing their speedo/motor every heat or two should move to 19T? Works for me. Does it also work for those in 19T that want to go fast but don't move to mod because they hate losing?
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Old 07-18-2006, 04:10 AM   #539
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yeah..that way they ll "only" replace the motor every couple heats and save bundles on the ESCs !
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Old 07-18-2006, 04:11 AM   #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv
Ok. So all the "elite" drivers that are fed up with replacing their speedo/motor every heat or two should move to 19T? Works for me. Does it also work for those in 19T that want to go fast but don't move to mod because they hate losing?
The same could also be said for 27 progressing to 19...

If you're racing modified there tends to be no limits. Previous efforts at restricting to 12t has just seen excessive timing to get the most out of them,thus more problems.

Look at any competitive motorsport.

Take subaru in the WRC for example. David Lapworth,Tecnical Director of Prodrive said in one of his interviews sometimes they have compromised the reliability of their cars to get more performance.

See any similarity to rc racing here? EVERYONE pushes the limits in racing. Back off or pay the price seems to be the general jist thesedays.

Do full factory drivers mind if it all goes up in smoke? For the race win yes,for their pocket.... Doubt it.
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Last edited by tc3team; 07-18-2006 at 04:12 AM. Reason: spelling
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