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Old 07-16-2006, 02:50 AM   #436
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Why does everyone keep saying that going to 4 cell instantly makes all cars obsolete? Remember that TC3's had seven cell slots and then you decided which location to place your pack then used a foam spacer which then became a FT aluminum upgrade hollow piece. With 4 cells you would now use two spacers. The racer would have several battery placement options available to him/her with 4 cell packs on a 6 cell chassis that we all currently have. Then after a season or so of racing events have taken place then the newer cars could be designed however the manufactures thought was best, say for the 2008 season.

The chassis would be temporally unbalanced but going to KO Propo's new low profile servo which should be lighter, then move the transponder over to the battery side. Those changes would get the balance closer.

BTW, I'm for making whatever changes that would help racing at the club level and smaller "big" events. When you think of it the amount of entries is still pretty good at the real big events, most are sellouts. The club racing level and regional racing entry turnouts seem to be low all over (U.S), not sure about world wide. The rules at the local level has always been based at what the big racing rules are except for maybe what batteries are legal, etc.

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Old 07-16-2006, 06:09 AM   #437
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Initially, people will be able to run four cells in existing cars. Next chassis will appear specifically for four celss. The manufacturers will redesign cars for for four cell. Then all the competitive racers will have to get the new chassis.

Why is this not an issue in TCS racing?

Could these failures be a result of tracks and tires? Heavy cars on tight tracks with questionable tires? I do not remeber these issues after indoor racing.
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Old 07-16-2006, 07:44 AM   #438
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I doubt stock and 19 turn touring car class are having reliability or overheating issues, so I doubt having 7.2 volt rated batteries are the problem. I also doubt that privateer modified class touring car racers are having problems as they know they cannot afford to push their equipment that hard. So I assume (I may be wrong) that its the sponsored drivers that are pushing their equipment past the point of reliability and that have little or no personal or financial responsibility that are trying to win that incentive that sponsors provide to their winning drivers. Maybe reducing the size of sponsored teams and/or their incentives would minimize reliability problems?

IFMAR and ROAR don't allow cash prizes for races for a solution to this very problem. Sponsors paying out incentives for winning big races sidesteps their solution and produces a "win at all costs" attitude. Well, reliablity is obviously the cost.

Besides, how come nobody has suggested to just use the same equipment the world champion uses? He obviously didn't have any issues.

I don't care if the rules are changed or not, as long as its in the best intrest of the hobby and not for the wrong reasons. 4 cells or 6, I just like hanging out and racing with my friends.
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Old 07-16-2006, 09:14 AM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb
I doubt stock and 19 turn touring car class are having reliability or overheating issues, so I doubt having 7.2 volt rated batteries are the problem. I also doubt that privateer modified class touring car racers are having problems as they know they cannot afford to push their equipment that hard. So I assume (I may be wrong) that its the sponsored drivers that are pushing their equipment past the point of reliability and that have little or no personal or financial responsibility that are trying to win that incentive that sponsors provide to their winning drivers. Maybe reducing the size of sponsored teams and/or their incentives would minimize reliability problems?

IFMAR and ROAR don't allow cash prizes for races for a solution to this very problem. Sponsors paying out incentives for winning big races sidesteps their solution and produces a "win at all costs" attitude. Well, reliablity is obviously the cost.

Besides, how come nobody has suggested to just use the same equipment the world champion uses? He obviously didn't have any issues.

I don't care if the rules are changed or not, as long as its in the best intrest of the hobby and not for the wrong reasons. 4 cells or 6, I just like hanging out and racing with my friends.
bravo. these are good points.
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Old 07-16-2006, 10:09 AM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Oh, really? so when burito said:
"I think this entire thread doesn't get us far, from where we are right now, to be honest... So I stay away from further discussion here!"

Yes he does sound very interested in what the racers and others have to say here.

And Oscar said he's not got time to come on here, so much for it being an important problem... it can't really be that important.
Give us a break Terry...

I tried discussing here to start, but open forums are obviously not the right places to discuss such things effectively! There's way too many people that have no clue what they're talking about (sorry), that do not understand what affects what (sorry), industry followers trying to promote their product in every post (sorry, this is you!), people that do not race at all...
I just don't have the time/passion to waste my time here with numerous long postings!

Yes, there's good input here as well and definitely some people know what they're talking about. But as I said earlier, good testing needs to be done and then we will see what the best option is.

Have a nice weekend everyone!
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Old 07-16-2006, 10:57 AM   #441
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Reto, you can't just ignore what people are saying here. This board represents 99% of "Joe Average" racer with the odd factory guy inbetween. Reading what they say gives a good indication as to what people want. And it's us, the consumers, that keeps this hobby alive, not people like you, Oscar, other manufacturers and whoever else was in that committee (no offense).

Last edited by Jan Larsen; 07-16-2006 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 07-16-2006, 11:55 AM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Larsen
Reto, you can't just ignore what people are saying here.
This is true, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Larsen
Reading what they say gives a good indication as to what people want.
I agree with Reto that most people on this forum can only look a few months ahead of what is going to happen. Industy insiders like Oscar, Reto, Rick Hohwart and Josh Cyrul can look much further and have a better picture of where we're heading.

These people had never brought up this self-regulating issue regarding speed untill now.
The IFMAR AGM was the right place and time to adress these problems which coincidentally was supported by overheating equipment.

If todays pro's have these troubles, think of what will happen in a year time. Al lot more motors ans speedo's will have died.

We all need to have patience and wait till proper testing has been carried out. All people on this forum should give 4-cell a proper test before they discuss about it.
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Old 07-16-2006, 12:22 PM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Larsen
Reto, you can't just ignore what people are saying here. This board represents 99% of "Joe Average" racer with the odd factory guy inbetween. Reading what they say gives a good indication as to what people want. And it's us, the consumers, that keeps this hobby alive, not people like you, Oscar, other manufacturers and whoever else was in that committee (no offense).

Exactly why is it that the few that are having the problems dictate what everyone else should run. Speeds and equipment isnt what is keeping people from coming into the sport. The world is in termoil and economies are not that great! Add to that all the other PC gaming out there PSP's. PS3's, whatever. Plus add to that, there are other choices that the young generation is lured to. Like import drag racing, and paintball.
And the main thing killing racing is the payouts that sponsors give racers. This wasnt a problem in the 80's and 90's. If you had a 50% deal you were factory.
The manufactures are the problem not the people. As long as this sponsorship with contigancy money is allowed we will loose all racing. I am sick and tired of hearing speeds, costs , and equipement faliure is deteriorating our hobby/sport. For Heavens sake stop and take a look at the big picture. I 'd say 80 percent of it is the manufactures fault. 5% of the racers shouldnt influence the rest. just because they have problems doesnt mean the rest of us do. Obiously they are at a level that they can extract every bit of performance out of their equipment.There are three things that need to be done is...

1. Build better equipment.
( So crap dont blow up! Better tires.)
2. Stop paying people to race their products.
(If people had to pay for their own crap they may not push it because it will cost them in the pocket and need to slow down.)
3. Start holding races where the general public can see the cars.
( better advertize/ exposure).
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Old 07-16-2006, 02:02 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
we might as well start racing nitro now.
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Old 07-16-2006, 03:19 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
We might as well start racing nitro now.
With the cost of the electric touring cars being similar to nitro and in some cases MORE, it will probably be cheaper to run nitro than electric with the rate that the price of electric touring cars are going.
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Old 07-16-2006, 03:54 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
With the cost of the electric touring cars being similar to nitro and in some cases MORE, it will probably be cheaper to run nitro than electric with the rate that the price of electric touring cars are going.
True. The fact we are driving $1000.00+ electric touring cars does not help their popularity.
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:11 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Larsen
This board represents 99% of "Joe Average" racer
You are quite wrong in that estimation. Its a 50/50 mix of "Internet Yahoos" and regular racers here. Don't get fooled by a vocal minority.

Any decison about this will be tested by manufactuers, presented to santioning bodies and then voted on by members of the santioning bodies. These are the real "Joe Racers".
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:32 PM   #448
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Many problems here as I see it. The faster you go the more reliable problems you have. With batteries approaching 4500mah and motor builders trying to use every ounce of the mah.....you have overheating problems for speedos, motors, batteries etc. Not to mention that the motors and batteries have "over-powered the cars now for years". They have fallen behind and are way too hard to drive.
Keep making bigger and better mousetraps and we will have less and less people attending in this hobby. People seem to be very concerned and aware of the costs involved to "enter this type of racing". That being said..."this type of racing" which is IFMAR based is really a "HAND-FUL" of people. The majority of the industry does not race under these conditions or to these limits.

My opinion is "racing has been hurt" because they are really no limits and no enforceable rules. Rules and limits should not only be placed on brushed motors and batteries. Cars, Speedos and could I be so naive as to think "brushless would have to follow any of the same rules"
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:34 PM   #449
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The other issue is "people dont want limits and dont want to go slower".

Basically if you take the speed away from an R/C car what do you have? Lets face it....most of the people cannot drive them like Rheinhardt or Hara and NEVER WILL. They need to have FUN somehow or WHY DO IT?
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:37 PM   #450
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We need SOME ENTRY POINT for people who are not Hara and Rheinhardt which is 98% of the people racing.

An entry point where you do not have to quit your job, leave your wife and kids in order to have fun and be competitive with your friend.

We need to somehow restore the fun in this sport, possibly with two levels.....an entry point and a high end all "balls out class" with possibly NO RULES

In my opinion the ENTRY POINT CLASS is the Future of this industry....trust me NITRO have the same issues we have with the exception of they have "even less places to race" due to the noise and speed of the cars.
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