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Old 07-14-2006, 07:32 AM   #346
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if you really wanter to slow drivers down make every ESC have a current limiter fitted to them provided that the limiter was the same for each driver you can slow the race down but who is going to want to do that?
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Old 07-14-2006, 08:13 AM   #347
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now here is something i know nothing about... would changing our motors to the better magnets such as cobalt magnets increase ther efficiency or reduce it? i realize they make more power, but since they make more power with less effort, then maybe this combined with a reinstated turn rule would be of bennefit? i also like the idea of restricting the timing on all motors.. simply from like 0-18 degrees..
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Old 07-14-2006, 08:51 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyrc
now here is something i know nothing about... would changing our motors to the better magnets such as cobalt magnets increase ther efficiency or reduce it? i realize they make more power, but since they make more power with less effort, then maybe this combined with a reinstated turn rule would be of bennefit? i also like the idea of restricting the timing on all motors.. simply from like 0-18 degrees..

I posted this earlier dont know if some missed this!


One thing no body has talked about! what about all these people that will be buying or bought ready to run's with 6 cell sticks! Are you going to turn them away? Now they need to buy or make 4 cell packs! I guess they need to spend more "money"

One more thing that came to mind. When turning up the motor's timing heat increases due to amp draw then lets require a timing restriction on mod motors! Example a ridge or tab that wont let the motor go past say 8 or 10 deg's and limit it to 10 or 12 turn winds.
Then you wont worry about people burning up motors, and speedos by timing the hell out of the motor! Now the cars will be tamer and tire wear will be reduced.

This would be easy to do now, and give time if necesary for the 4 cell technology to be tested. It may soften the transition.

I'd like to hear from Josh and Rick on this.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:03 AM   #349
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Whether using 4, 5, or 6 cells, I don't think modified motors should be restricted in regards to timing or wind. After all, they are modified motors. There are two other motor classes for those that want to compete with restricted equipment.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:12 AM   #350
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there's a really simple way to prevent your esc from overheating or from blowing a wind... dial down the power a bit or drive a bit more conservatively.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:16 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB
there's a really simple way to prevent your esc from overheating or from blowing a wind... dial down the power a bit or drive a bit more conservatively.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:42 AM   #352
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speedxl - That will only make things worse:

First, tech becomes more complicated - Checking to make sure arms aren't twisted, tabs aren't trimmed and the arms actually have the proper winds on them. Add into that that you can substitute the arm segment leg from a 5mm, 4mm, 3.5mm (or even smaller) not to mention short stacking the segments. All of this will make a 12-10 turn feel anywhere from 1-4 winds hotter than it is!! Take a stock motor arm, unwind it and rewind it with larger wire at 12T.... There won't be much difference in speed from a 7T but it will burn up in 1/4 of the time add to that technical inspection NIGHTMARE!! Leave the motor limits out of the equation... They just don't work.....

I'm all for allowing the neo mags and opening up the motor rules so we can make them withstand the heat and power that the batteries can deliver.

As far as the RTR 6-cell to 4-cell comment - I don't think it would take long for mfg's to use and/or produce a 4-cell pack (cheaper cost in the kit and lighter for shipping) and it would allow, as Rick said, room for future implementation of Li-Po and other battery technology. As a hobby shop owner, if someone wants to race their RTR and get involved, I would have no problem unsoldering 2 cells from their pack if they wanted to race!!
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:50 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB
there's a really simple way to prevent your esc from overheating or from blowing a wind... dial down the power a bit or drive a bit more conservatively.
Question is,are world class drivers (for example) happy to do this?

Dont think so! They want to race the best of everything they have,flat out!

Then you go back to the problem of things overheating and cutting out or breaking down.....
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Last edited by tc3team; 07-14-2006 at 09:50 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:51 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB
there's a really simple way to prevent your esc from overheating or from blowing a wind... dial down the power a bit or drive a bit more conservatively.
if that is the case then buyer beware! why are we on this thread if all we have to do is let dumb people blow up their stuff from abuse? it's either a problem or it isn't.. why change anything if the problem is operator error?
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:54 AM   #355
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Josh, I disagree... 2 Cell LiPo at 7.4v is much closer to a 6 cell 7.2v pack than a 1 cell Lipo at 3.7v is to a 4 cell 4.8v pack. There's no way I'm going to run a 1 cell LiPo in my 12th scale and be competitive.

The only segment of this hobby that is affected is Modified Touring Car. I was plenty able to roast a closed endbell stocker on 1200's 15 years ago.... Even on 4 cells there are those who will gear the heck out of a motor and still fry them....

Here we go back to my suggestion of a Minimum gearing rule... Have a set gearing to run for particular winds based upon each cars final drive ratio (and tire size for foam.) Even with foam, as your tires wear you'll NEVER be able to go below the gear rule because as the tires wear during the race the rollout will be higher. Manufacturers would just have to make the number of teeth marking on each gear a lot more conspicuous than they currently are.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:04 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB
there's a really simple way to prevent your esc from overheating or from blowing a wind... dial down the power a bit or drive a bit more conservatively.
Thats sounds so easy but its not. I am surprized Rick replied with a to this post as Rick shut down a speedo in one of the Triple A's at the Worlds last week. This moved him from middle of the pack to 10th.

It is againt human nature to give up power on the track to finish races. If you do you are gaurantying you will not make the podium. You always have to run the agressive setup and roll the dice that it holds togehter...Right Rick
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:11 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyrc
if that is the case then buyer beware! why are we on this thread if all we have to do is let dumb people blow up their stuff from abuse? it's either a problem or it isn't.. why change anything if the problem is operator error?
The problems are operator error.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:22 AM   #358
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Less Volts or More an alternative view.

If we believe that 4.8volts and 4.2Ahr is enough power for 5 minute racing then we are planning to average 50 amps producing 4.8 x 50=240 watts of power. Now using 11.1 LiPoly we would need to average only 240/11.1=22 Amps for the same power.

Heat, which seems to be the problem, is generated by power loss which is proportional to Amps squared so 22 x 22 compared to 50 x 50 is over 5 times less heat with 11.1 LiPoly than with 4.8 NiMh.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:24 AM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
It is againt human nature to give up power on the track to finish races. If you do you are gaurantying you will not make the podium. You always have to run the agressive setup and roll the dice that it holds togehter...Right Rick
This makes sense, but throttle control is part of driving and R/C car.

Look at off-road, we ask drivers to use thottle control to control wheelspin. If you spin the tires everwhere, you are not going to do very well.

On-road driver must exhibit some sort of throttle control as well. You can't just go full punch and full brake everywhere on the track (as MANY do). If you do, you have to tone the electronics down to handle this driving style. Or the driver can change his driving to more efficiently get the car around the track.

My ESC problem was due to my over agressive braking which generated the heat that caused the problem, not because of too much voltage/energy in the batteries.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:35 AM   #360
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Basically with 4 cell touring car there would be:

4cell-mod (slightly slower than current mod- many 19t drivers would step up more than likely)

4cell-19t (about the same speed as current 6cell stock- stock drivers would migrate to this class)

4cell-stock (slow- novice drivers would have their class back)
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