R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-12-2006, 09:27 PM   #271
Tech Elite
 
WheelNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Ab
Posts: 3,210
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to WheelNut
Default

The only thing you guys are forgetting is that if brushed dies in the next couple years (which is certainly will unless the rules are freed up) that the higher voltage problem is only a problem for brushed. At this point though the brushless equipment is not powerful enough to take full advantage of the power that a 3.5t brushless would produce. more voltage is more efficient, except in brushed motors because of the increased arcing and what not.

Although I would say that limiting traction would be the easiest way to reduce wear on everything. Just look at 2wd offroad, you can't run more than a 12t motor becuase its just not drivable. Now as long as your touring car stays 4wd you wont have to worry to much about drivability.
__________________
•Brad Comis
WheelNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 09:49 PM   #272
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelNut
....as long as your touring car stays 4wd you wont have to worry to much about drivability.
You don't run much sedan mod do you?

There are factory sponsored stock drivers (that have won Nationals) that have tried Mod and given up becuase its too hard. They can win a stock Nats but they are D-main mod guys.

It takes genuine natural talent to be really fast in sedan mod. I dont just mean wheel control...its mostly about throttle control. Why...because with a decent 8 turn you have more than enough horsepower to light up all your tires exiting a corner and detonate you car against the outside wall of your track if you pull the trigger too hard.

Reducing the cell count will not significantly effect top speeds but it will open the door to mod racing and let racers run the top class without such a steep learning curve. Why...increased driveability.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 10:10 PM   #273
Tech Elite
 
WheelNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Ab
Posts: 3,210
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to WheelNut
Default

I never said it was easy, but could you imagine trying to drive a 2wd touring car with a 8 turn motor? I think that would be much, much harder.
__________________
•Brad Comis
WheelNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 10:26 PM   #274
Tech Adept
 
MadMikeB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 187
Default

Hang on, its the top category of the class, what's wrong with there being a steep learning curve? I mean we're talking elite level here, its SUPPOSED to be hard.

I, for one, can live with the prospect of probably never being good enough ....

I've said it before, 540, Stock, even 19T, if you want a flatter learning curve, there is a class for you somewhere among them.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
<SNIP>Reducing the cell count will not significantly effect top speeds but it will open the door to mod racing and let racers run the top class without such a steep learning curve. Why...increased driveability.
MadMikeB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 10:40 PM   #275
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
You don't run much sedan mod do you?

There are factory sponsored stock drivers (that have won Nationals) that have tried Mod and given up becuase its too hard. They can win a stock Nats but they are D-main mod guys.
O-Man !
Is`nt it funny they can only win when they have a faster than anyone`s stock motor & battery`s.....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 10:42 PM   #276
Tech Fanatic
 
Jaybo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: melbourne, australia
Posts: 773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
O-Man !
Is`nt it funny they can only win when they have a faster than anyone`s stock motor & battery`s.....
I think it's more sad, than funny
Jaybo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 01:18 AM   #277
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 902
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by habicht
A solid state accelerator is not allowed in the rule. It's like a ASR or ASP.
So change the rules!! It would solve the problems and cost the racers nothing. I was pointing out there are other ways to solve the problems. Current limiters (and other limiters) are also options it's just whether we choose to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
The electronics manufacture just plain and simply need to beef it up.
I totally agree. The electronics need to match the power/energy levels, it need not increase the cost of the products just bring them up to spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Like everyone has said here before. We dont want to slow the cars down. We want to make our electronics last longer and maybe improve the drivability.
We may not want to slow the cars down but may HAVE to, but only if the problems get worse and need action to be taken. Having 'beefed up' electronics where required to make products last longer is what can be done by the manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
Maybe the motor manufactures can come up with a self regulating device within the motor that wont allow the ampdraw to go over a set limit. Come up with something that all will agree as the standerd.
Yes, but as adrian points out..

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
I have talked with a few companies about this. The circuit needed is not simple and you need large heat sinks to dissipate the energy not sent to the motor. A device like this is possible but it would be large, possibly inconsistant in its limiting due to component tolerances and heat, difficult to tech for accuracy, impossible to fit on to current chassis, you get the point. This is most likely not the way to go.
There are other more viable limiting options worth considering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv
This discussion is not really about going fast or not going fast. It is also not about wanting to push the limit. This discussion is where we put that limit for the next few years. There will allways be a limit and it is defined by the rules we adopt. Manufacturors will allways try and find ways to get the most out of their products and design the best possible products that the rules allow. That will not change whatever rules we adopt. So I suggest we quit worrying about that part of the discussion.
Manufacturers will always try to find ways to get the most design and profit out of their products, maybe some need to improve on the design part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Adams
A current limiter would be pretty sweet also...AMB makes transponders that almost all serious racers have, why couldn't a company make current limiters much like amb has?
Yes Chris it's possible as I've said before the problem is nobody wants to take this option for various reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
The easiest way to solve the problem is to voluntairly use less powerful motors. It costs NOTHING.

There is no rule that says you have to run a 7-turn touring car motor. We choose to and that choice leads to the problems we face. The same motor set-up (timing, brushes, springs) with a 10 turn armature will eliminate the problem.

If you don't want to blow up your motor or ESC, don't.
Profound and true, alas unrealistic!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Yeah but you underestimate the tinkering nature of r/c racers. I used to race Pro-10 before Sedan existed. When I saw the first sedans I thought they were so cool. I know that were slower but i didn't care. I wanted full suspension and 4wd!
Ah at last the real reason why PRO 10 died?

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.D.Jim
It can't be fixed by making $300 speed controls into the standard.....
No, but make the speed controls we have now meet the performance and design requirements to be reliable with the batteries we are racing with.
Terry_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 01:26 AM   #278
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 177
Default

Im just a simple guy who love my EP RC for many years and Never race in any big event before. Just dont flame me please.

No sure any top racers or regular race winners mention these previously. EP really shouldnt go the way Formuar One is killing itself to slow the car down, i.e., groove tyres, Engine reduce for V12 3.5L to V10 3.0 then to V8 today !!

Why not EP Mod, just make it simple, maintain the 6 cells config., extend the race time to 8min, it may be a boring & longer race for top professional racers, but strategy can be play to make racing fun for the spectator, i.e., maintain car speed for first 3 minutes & final dash for last 2 minutes, instead of the 5min and not many spectator can understand what is going on before it finish? In 8 minutes format the car may have to set to run slower. However, who knows a 5000mAH batteries will be release soon, same old thing come back!
MARKANO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 01:36 AM   #279
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: victoria BC
Posts: 810
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

I know that with the new batteries that are coming out. the voltage is wow high.

A couple of people mentioned going to foam tires. The Idea intreges me. What I'm curious about. Last spring @ stockton during the carpet NAT. Was anyone blowing motor and/or ESC. I mean I ran Sedan Carpet a couple of times last Winter(my club only runs 12 scale stock. With all the same motor{hand outs} and we race on a 12 scale track 5' lanes) I know on Carpet the most tracks are more technical, and less flowing compare to onroad asphalt. YOu didn't hear people about thing blowing up.

I mean nitro went to foams why don't we do the same for ep sedans. Or am I just have it all wrong.

Oh this have to be one the best threads I've read in a long time. great reading. Tons of great Idea's.
keep the turning.
cyrrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 01:53 AM   #280
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 306
Default

battery capacity has increased from 1700mAh until 4300mAh/more, but run time still in 5 minutes..

IMO, I think extending into 8 or 10 minutes race might be easiest way to do than other technical approach..

should be no extra problem,
Faiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 02:12 AM   #281
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 177
Default

Yeh. Maintain every technical specs, just extend the run time, more "watchable" and "excitement" for spectator to follow whats going on.
MARKANO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 02:19 AM   #282
Tech Adept
 
Rowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
No, but make the speed controls we have now meet the performance and design requirements to be reliable with the batteries we are racing with.
Although it would be great to see a higher spec ESC, I don't think it would serve any real purpose. There will always be a limiting factor! For years it has been batteries, now the battery technology has surpassed that of the ESC and motors, it is they, that are the limiting factor.

If we were to increase the spec/durability of the ESC's, I think it would be motors that would become the sole limiting factor. This would certainly be cheaper than "throw away" ESC's, but it wouldn't really acheive a great deal in the grand scheme.

So lets say the ESC's are improved, someone will undoubtedly come up with a novel way to improve motor efficency, then what, we're back to batteries being the limiting factor.

Imagine the speeds of the cars if we could dump a 4200mah or even 4600mah or 5000mah battery in 5 minutes. Will technology aimed at increasing speed be the demise of mod racing as we know it today? One thing is certain, people will never stop trying to push the boundries
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 02:59 AM   #283
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: victoria BC
Posts: 810
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faiz
battery capacity has increased from 1700mAh until 4300mAh/more, but run time still in 5 minutes..

IMO, I think extending into 8 or 10 minutes race might be easiest way to do than other technical approach..

should be no extra problem,
This might be the way to go in the short run. I mean a driver has to adjust to make the 8 minute mark. instead of 5 minutes. then people will say well that will increase the lenght that the local shop/track owner have to stay opean. Well what if? instead of 10 drivers on the track why not increase it to 12 or 14. Yes it would create more driver headache. It would increase the drivers ability to have to drive around even more back markers. Nothing wrong with that. I would make it more fun for both the spectators an the drivers. More battles would increase on the track. Also with more cars on the track a driver cannot drive as fast, without compromise.

I say lets keep it the same for 6 cell but increase both times to either 8 or 10 minutes. Also increase the number of drivers on the track to 12 or 15. Could you imagine the frieght train. then you would trully see a great game of chess being played on the track.

Here a quick question what is the Ifmar or roar legal weight. I though it was 1425gm. please correct me.
cyrrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 03:09 AM   #284
Tech Master
 
Speed Demon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ROCK GARDEN
Posts: 1,053
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Can they make it as:

1. Maintain 6 cells ( If reduced to 4 cell... we need to carry sand bag ????)
2. Limit the number of motor turns ( mod of course) but ratio is open
3. or limit motor turn and ratio.
4. Run 8 minutes

Well.. I dunno... thats all popped out from my head... I am sure lots of people will have their arguments on the reasons we posted here...

But I do agree on one thing.... why limit the speed??? Arent racing is all about speed and handling???? If you can handle the speed.... you can race and can win....But, if you can't handle the speed.... go slower... you still can race... but you may not win...
__________________
CUSTOM CRAWLER & ROCK STACKER
Speed Demon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 03:16 AM   #285
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: victoria BC
Posts: 810
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

But I do agree on one thing.... why limit the speed??? Arent racing is all about speed and handling???? If you can handle the speed.... you can race and can win....But, if you can't handle the speed.... go slower... you still can race... but you may not win... [/QUOTE]


I do agree with you about the speed. I know I run mainly stock and 19. I was hopping to move up to mod. Unfortuanly our club only runs and stock and 19. mainly stock. great racing. sometimes I just want to try mod. I guess it's only human nature wanting to go faster. Heck I'd rather try to go faster with my rc. and burn up a esc than trying to go faster with my real car. and kill myself. by pushing the the car beyond it's limits.
cyrrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2006 Ifmar 1/12th & 1/10th Istc Electric On-road World Championships – Danny Teh Malaysian R/C Racers 1 02-16-2005 10:38 AM
2006 Ifmar 1/12th & 1/10th Istc Electric On-road World Championships phlim Singapore R/C Racers 3 02-16-2005 09:52 AM
2004 IFMAR ISTC & 1/12th On Road Worlds at Full Throttle Speedway AdrianM Electric On-Road 2162 12-29-2004 04:09 AM
2004 IFMAR 1/12th and 1/10th ISTC ELECTRIC TRACK WORLD CHAMPINSHIPS Marcos.J Electric On-Road 55 02-10-2004 09:05 AM
2003 Ifmar ISTC 1/10 on road???? Wilfred Electric On-Road 2 09-01-2003 05:39 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:31 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net