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Old 07-12-2006, 12:20 PM   #226
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This may be a little off subject but the comparisons have already been made, didn't Formula 1 just go from 10 cylinders to 8 cylinders to limit speeds this year?
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Old 07-12-2006, 12:36 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer
EA - you're right (meant to mention this) - anyone notice the MAH rating on cordless tools now? Right behind what RC is using. . . Crack them open and (quite often, I know it was this way with my Makita tools) you'll find sub-c's.

Yes that is what our cells are actually designed for. Now I do THINK that the cell manufactures may put more "effort" into our RC cells to make them better for our application...I know IB does.

They ONLY hope we could ever have for a MAH lockout so to speak is if ALL cordless manufactures went to Lipo.....which a lot already offer them. Then the IB's and GP's of the world would loose a TON of their customer base. Maybe then the RC community/Manufactures to tell them This is what we want....period. But I still do not think that would be an option we would ever be afforded.

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Old 07-12-2006, 02:08 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCIDA
This may be a little off subject but the comparisons have already been made, didn't Formula 1 just go from 10 cylinders to 8 cylinders to limit speeds this year?
No point comparing F1 to RC cars, the reason they want to reduce speeds in F1 is safety. When was the last time you drove an RC car and feared for your life?
RC cars are not too fast they just seem to have more power then the electrics can take at the moment.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:08 PM   #229
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A few comments from what has been posted...

#1 - Reduced weight due to changing from 4wd to 2wd = 20 grams...lol... A delrin spool, pulley, aluminum universals, screws and a belt..... Not much there weight wise.... Acceleration and braking would be greatly reduced with 2wd - as well as drivability and performance. The question is - would the consumer rather have a car that's a little slower that won't melt down but still handles awesome or a rocket ship fast car that handles like crap and they have to struggle to hang onto it?? Which would everyone prefer?? This is an honest question I'm asking right now as I know what I would prefer but I'm not sure about everyone else.

#2 - Wheel and tire weights - I designed a new TC wheel for foams for Jaco and Jaco changed it's nitro wheel. Why?? They needed to be stronger as the cars have become stiffer, speeds have increased and thus the force behind impacts has increased - Basically, we're breaking wheels and they have been altered to provide a stronger quality product for the consumer - We are already on the limits of weight vs. strenght.

#3 - One of the draws to the TOURING CAR market is the TOURING CAR body. Throw an LMP body on it and you have another 1/12 (and former 1/10 pan), 1/10 "Outlaw", 1/8 On-road type catagory that people (normal people, not us die-hard racing fanatics) can not associate with.

Again, this subject needs to be looked at as a whole - What we do on the top levels of the sport will trickle down through the rest of the market over the coming years. Keep the input comming!!!

Thanks for all the kind words guys!!!
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:11 PM   #230
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That makes sense (EA)...kind of like NiCD sub-C's stopping at 2400mAH when NiMH became the more suitable choice. I assume this started with the cordless manufacturers as well.

With NiMH and Li-po, we're talking about two very different animals, so this would definitely be a much more radical change from the viewpoint of the racer!
All in all, this is interesting stuff. With whatever solution we arrive with, some people will be happy and others will not. Just like with everything, it seems, we won't be able to please everyone.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:12 PM   #231
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Robfo - Then you obviously didn't see a 6-cell pan car at the Carpet Nats a few years back...lol... They stopped us from running after the 2nd round of qualification as they were afraid we would kill someone!!! That was the last time 1/10 pan mod was raced at a major event. We were 2 seconds a lap faster than 1/12 mod which was 1 second a lap faster than TC mod (rubber tire but open tires so the grip was much higher than the tires we have to use now).
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:15 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robfo
No point comparing F1 to RC cars, the reason they want to reduce speeds in F1 is safety. When was the last time you drove an RC car and feared for your life?
If you were standing near the track when the Mod Pro-10 cars were running at the 1999 Carpet Nats you feared for your life....i'm not kidding

Like everyone has said here before. We dont want to slow the cars down. We want to make our electronics last longer and maybe improve the drivability.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:15 PM   #233
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EA, I gues your right I was offering as an example but guess it will only be good for a year.

Come to think about why not just get rid of the damn batt limit on mah and just limit to any sub c I mean we are coming off the track with excess runtime so at this time do we really need to limit mah's.
That will help control the battery wars for capacity and just deal with the voltages, which the equipment can be designed around that problem.

One thing that should really be looked at is start looking for different materials for the motors so they can handle the heat.

Maybe the motor manufactures can come up with a self regulating device within the motor that wont allow the ampdraw to go over a set limit. Come up with something that all will agree as the standerd.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:16 PM   #234
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Ok well maybe i'm wrong but surely 2 seconds a lap faster than a 12th is worth a life or 2 along the way (Joking btw)
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:16 PM   #235
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Josh is fast with radios AND keyboards!
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:18 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Josh is fast with radios AND keyboards!
And changing diapers too by now!!

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Old 07-12-2006, 02:24 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
would the consumer rather have a car that's a little slower that won't melt down but still handles awesome or a rocket ship fast car that handles like crap and they have to struggle to hang onto it?? Which would everyone prefer??
Racers will prefer the former while bashers might prefer the latter.
I would quit TC if it were 2wd, or for that matter if any change was made that resulted in decreased drivability. In the end when things trickle down to the local levels, drivability is a necessity for newcomers.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:31 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
Maybe the motor manufactures can come up with a self regulating device within the motor that wont allow the ampdraw to go over a set limit. Come up with something that all will agree as the standerd.
We have that now. You know it as "number of turns".
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:32 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
A few comments from what has been posted...

#1 - Reduced weight due to changing from 4wd to 2wd = 20 grams...lol... A delrin spool, pulley, aluminum universals, screws and a belt..... Not much there weight wise.... Acceleration and braking would be greatly reduced with 2wd - as well as drivability and performance. The question is - would the consumer rather have a car that's a little slower that won't melt down but still handles awesome or a rocket ship fast car that handles like crap and they have to struggle to hang onto it?? Which would everyone prefer?? This is an honest question I'm asking right now as I know what I would prefer!

#3 - One of the draws to the TOURING CAR market is the TOURING CAR body. Throw an LMP body on it and you have another 1/12 (and former 1/10 pan), 1/10 "Outlaw", 1/8 On-road type catagory that people (normal people, not us die-hard racing fanatics) can not associate with.
!

Josh your right to an extent but manufactures now a days have the capabilaties to design a 2 wd car that can work if the number of cells are reduced to 4. I know as well as you a 12 scale pancar works well on a prepared parking lot with a good setup, granted most people dont have the trigger finger for it . But I am not talking about a pancar but an independant suspension car. Designed correctly with the right tire combo and set up it will work.

As for LMP's fine scratch the Idea. So then lets make the cars front wheeldrive. Since in full scale its banned except for WRC Rally.
At this point you will have an over powerd car and be forced to put in a milder wind motor to control spin! Now people will also be forced to turn down the punch on the speedo. Being front wheel drive it will be controlable.
Front wheel drive cars have a natural tendacy to understeer! Real touring cars as we race dont exist anymore. At the end, the only thing that was racing was rear wheel drive against front wheel driveAudi causing a ban on 4wd . And now the current hatch backs they race in BTCC are front wheel drive. And DTM is mostly rear wheeldrive!



Sorry Rick H that went past me. Your right!!
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:32 PM   #240
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Quote:
Today 04:08 PM

#1 - Reduced weight due to changing from 4wd to 2wd = 20 grams...lol... A delrin spool, pulley, aluminum universals, screws and a belt..... Not much there weight wise.... Acceleration and braking would be greatly reduced with 2wd - as well as drivability and performance. The question is - would the consumer rather have a car that's a little slower that won't melt down but still handles awesome or a rocket ship fast car that handles like crap and they have to struggle to hang onto it?? Which would everyone prefer?? This is an honest question I'm asking right now as I know what I would prefer but I'm not sure about everyone else.
I run stock anyhow, so slower is faster for me. I'd much rather have a superior handling car that forces more competition driving. Not horsepower(batteries, motors, etc.) But, not to the point of a spec class either. Bring back the 1/10 scale pan-cars on road-course, 4-cell, brushless, and smack a Lola on it.
Unfortunately, I know I'm in the minority on that one.
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