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Old 07-07-2006, 11:40 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Jason B

People like nc-hopsing seem genuinely interested in trying to get to the root of what it would take for the two types to coexist, and that's exactly what this hobby needs more of. On the other hand, we have certain companies out there who take a very aggressive approach to trashing the other side of the aisle simply because it doesn't bode well for their business model. I understand that they're companies trying to make money, but the rest of us need to see their motives for what they truly are.
Thanks Jason! You are right though, I can see both sides of the coin on this subject. Its pretty obvious there are going to be some issues if ROAR approves the motor for stock racing. Both sides of the fence will be when one or the other gets passed up down the straight away. Time will only tell.
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:41 AM   #122
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Wow, didnt someone just say that Trinity just released a mini brushless motor?
Yep

There was some discussion at the time of that motor's release that Trinity was eating its own words, but I personally don't hold it against them since it was for 1/18th . It might be a technicality, but I'm all about cutting people some slack .

Now when they finally come around to releasing a 1/10th brushless motor and/or ESC, I might chuckle a little to myself simply because I've always thought it was a very short-sighted statement to make.
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:54 AM   #123
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This whole arguement about there being some magic brushless controller that if you jump a resistor or change out the fet's is killing me... We can make a 10.5 turn brushless motor perform like a 4.5 turn brushless motor... if this was the case then the same would hold true for Brushed... I have this magic controller than makes my 27 turn brushed perform like a 10 turn brushed... Just like Brushed the limitations are in the motor, ie; the number of winds and wire used... The thing you lose is some tunability and wear...
I dont think thats what they meant by that. That would be like saying you can tune your Chevy truck to run like a Corvette just by messing with the computer. You can squeeze more power out of Chevy truck just by tweaking the computers parmeters with out doing anything mechanical to a point. The computers are set up to give good power, good mileage, and good longevity. There is always room to get more power and torque. I wouldnt be suprised if the brushless systems had a little something extra available that would allow the motor spin a few more RPM's if you knew how to tweak the speedo a bit. Thats all it would take to give someone an "edge" over the next guy. It would be easy enough for Novak to say "oh that motor is too fast for stock, lets just detune the speed control to only allow it reach a certain RPM, then it will be OK for ROAR rules". Hey theres an idea, what if the rules mandated an RPM limit for stock motors? Do brushless motors run comparable RPM's? More? Less? Just a thought.
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:57 AM   #124
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I'm not an advocate for brushless or brushed motors, but to me, you sound just like the "brushed" guys you are complaining about
I deserve that. I tend to be a zealot, especially on the Internet. In all honesty, though, I agree that the technology should be allowed to coexist, and we should find a way for them to race together. It's really the only way, especially with the small turnouts often seen at club races. I don't honestly wish brushed guys dead, but I do find myself disenchanted with those in the bunch that are trying to stifle technology to protect their own interests.

Not wanting to tune and mess with motors isn't about being lazy. To me, like Jason said, it's about spending more time doing the things about R/C that are fun. To me, that's driving, and setting up my car. And honestly, for the future of R/C, which is the group of people that matter the most, it's going to be the thing that appeals to most of them too.

I promise you, people getting into R/C don't do it because they can't wait to rebrush and cut comms and spend years learning about all the tricks to make motors faster and investing in the equipment required just to keep things running right. The only people who love that stuff are those who are already doing it, and even a lot of them are seeing that there's an easier way.

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Old 07-07-2006, 12:01 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by nc-hopsing
It would be easy enough for Novak to say "oh that motor is too fast for stock, lets just detune the speed control to only allow it reach a certain RPM, then it will be OK for ROAR rules". Hey theres an idea, what if the rules mandated an RPM limit for stock motors? Do brushless motors run comparable RPM's? More? Less? Just a thought.
I'm pretty sure Novak has had a lot of trouble detuning motors through the ESC, especially with heat and reliability. In fact, that feature is completely gone in the GTB from what I understand. It's got the same kind of adjustability that a normal ESC has with throttle profiles and drag brake, but nothing further. Presumably, you'd just tune the ESC to be as fast as possible, give it a few options similar to what current ESC's have, and let the motors be the determining factor in performance.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:07 PM   #126
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I am the question kid, nekmiyevo2 (keeps forgetting the passwords and the username, so...)

ok, I don't understand most of the stuff that you guys are talking about.

Isn't the differneces between brushed and brushless is the speed? and the run time? what else?
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:07 PM   #127
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Some of us just don't have the time to be screwing with motors anymore. I'm a parent with kids, a wife and bills besides I have my full size car hobby which is much more rewarding when it comes to tuning engines... I own a lathe, a Real Dyno (not a motor checker) and all the other gadgets that are soon to be obsolete... I also spend much more time bashing than I do racing... Its free to go to a parking lot or run in the street, around here practice time runs on the track isn't cheap. The biggest waste of money are my carpet cars which I would never run on the street... If my LHS lets us run this new motor and LiPo's I'll be one happy camper this year.... Too bad I can't run LiPo in my 12 scale...
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:13 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by lceriyirri
I am the question kid, nekmiyevo2 (keeps forgetting the passwords and the username, so...)

ok, I don't understand most of the stuff that you guys are talking about.

Isn't the differneces between brushed and brushless is the speed? and the run time? what else?

The difference is in the way current is delivered to the motor. Brushed motors use 2 brushed that ride on the commutator and mechanically switch the polarity of the armature fingers to make the armature spin.... The biggest drawback to brushed motors is wear... You have a mechanical connection that wears with every revolution...

Brushless motors do not have a mechanical connection, the poles are switch electronically. They do not have the same wear factor since there is no mechanical connection to switch the magnets polatity to make the armature spin.

The drawback to brushless is there is no tunability as of right now. If you have a low performing brushed motor you can change brushes, spring tension and timing to extract more power out of the motor.

Get it????
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:14 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by lceriyirri
I am the question kid, nekmiyevo2 (keeps forgetting the passwords and the username, so...)

ok, I don't understand most of the stuff that you guys are talking about.

Isn't the differneces between brushed and brushless is the speed? and the run time? what else?
Basically, in competition racing brushed motors require a lot of regular maintenance to run at their best. This is especially important in racing since you always want your motors to be fast.

For bashing, brushless often runs longer, and again has the advantage of requiring less maintenance. A LOT of advancements have been made to make brushed motors last a long time as well, though, so it wouldn't be fair to rule those out as an option.

Currently, both styles of motor have their place in R/C. The biggest issue has been that in competition racing, there's been a lot of resistance to allowing brushed and brushless motors to run together. A lot of people are hoping to change this, since brushless looks to make it easier for new racers to get involved, and requires less time of aging racers that take on more responsibilities as they age, and have less time to do the "busy" work of R/C.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:18 PM   #130
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and requires less time of aging racers that take on more responsibilities as they age, and have less time to do the "busy" work of R/C.
Thank you for refering to us "Old Farts" so eliquently.... hahahahahaha
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:24 PM   #131
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Thank you for refering to us "Old Farts" so eliquently.... hahahahahaha
LOL

I'm in the same boat as you though. I have 2 kids, a wife, a job, and other interests. I've "sold out" of this hobby 3 or 4 times mostly due to motor maintenance. It's something that I know how to do, and even owned the equipment to do (lathe, etc), but I simply don't have the time for it.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:27 PM   #132
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Hey, I'm there with you guys. Between work, my own growing business and a impending marriage, I struggle to find time to even work on the car, let alone motors. I can't imagine what I'll do when kids enter the picture.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:48 PM   #133
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wow, I am the youngest, kind of.
just finished high school
wanted to get a part time job and buy some rc stuff but no one hire me
so I have no money to get them.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:51 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Jason B
LOL

I'm in the same boat as you though. I have 2 kids, a wife, a job, and other interests. I've "sold out" of this hobby 3 or 4 times mostly due to motor maintenance. It's something that I know how to do, and even owned the equipment to do (lathe, etc), but I simply don't have the time for it.
I've never sold out, I've taken breaks and let stuff collect dust.... I've been selling stuff off that I've been saving for a rainy day lately and just spending time fixing what I have.... I have 2 brushless cars currently and I love it... Charge a battery, oil the bearings and I'm off running... Just trying to come up with a plan to go brushless on more of them. My wife has a tendancy to look at my bank statement and CC bills. I guess if this was the only thing I spent money on it wouldn't be so bad but it isn't.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:52 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by lceriyirri
wow, I am the youngest, kind of.
just finished high school
wanted to get a part time job and buy some rc stuff but no one hire me
so I have no money to get them.
That's because you are legal and they'd have to pay you at least minimum wage....

Hmmm... this is a whole 'nother subject....
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