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Old 11-02-2006, 09:13 AM   #346
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I don't think that you'll get the 13.5 to be "on par" in some of the classes. On a roadcourse in 12th the 13.5 is way faster at the 6 minute mark because it doesn't fade as much from heat.

In the end, we need to get all of the motor manufacturers to agree on a "stock" brushless design and stick with it. Everything should be locked down from the wire to the rotor.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:13 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olhipster1
up the gears???...keep it fair and even...it's hard enough getting the 13.5 accepted to run with stock brushed racers... my 2 cents..please keep it fair..we know the motor can handle quite a bit more gearing..will only make it stand out for critism and unacceptance on the track for competition with standard stock class. Unless you're just going to see how fast you can make it go while practicing or finding the thermal point.
Well, Novak should have been the one to design it fair. Concerning their 13.5 stock motor, on their website they say,
Quote:
Team Novak has had many requests to come up with a brushless equivalent to a 27-turn stock brushed motor. After much field testing on dirt and tarmac (asphalt) with some of our team drivers, we have come up with a wind that gives nearly identical lap times as a stock brushed motor. The Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motor is the result of all this testing. It provides lap performance similar to a 27-turn racing stock brushed motor, but with the brushless advantage of minimal maintenance, long life and increased run-times a definite plus for drivers who want to spend more time driving than wrenching.


After all that "testing" and I see now the 13.5 has 165 watts of power!!! 27T brushed motors produce 130-135W of power. Combine the extra power of the 13.5 and the improved battery efficiency, and you have a motor much stronger than stock brushed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
That's in 64 pitch right??? You really have to/can go up that many???
Oh yes. This motor is all torque. To give you an example, on my 76' oval track, for my 12th scale, I'm running 78T spur (yes that's 78T!) and a 36T pinion, and I still need to go up. Temps are coming off a measly 103 degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
In the end, we need to get all of the motor manufacturers to agree on a "stock" brushless design and stick with it. Everything should be locked down from the wire to the rotor.
Our club has made a separate 1/12th Brushless Stock class. We do not allow any modifications for the motor (except drilling a single hole in the back for the purpose of oiling the rear bearing).
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Old 11-02-2006, 05:32 PM   #348
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Hi Guys,

Regarding the timing, I'd say from our experience working with team driver, and customer racers, the timing has very little effect on the laptime.

We've turned it "all the way up" and "all the way down". Basically what you do is change the gear you can run, but not the speed. We don't talk about the timing much, because it really is a non-issue.

This has been confirmed by many oval racers, and onroad racers alike. Fast guys that win races as well as your average joe "C" mainers. I myself have monkied with timing only to find the same thing our engineers told me would happen. Turn the timing all the way up, you end up gearing down, turn it all the way down, and it will need more gear.

Brushless motors timing is not as effective as a Brushed motor timing I think.

I don't think even the slowest brushless motor will ever be equal to a Brushed motor. It's kind of like real cars. A carberator, and a Fuel Injection system "do the same thing", but a fule injection system has abviouse inherient advantages.

The combining of the two types is only an effort to stop one from becoming "obsolete". Once you get a "brushless" class running, many racers will shy away as they feel they "have to" run BL. If you leave it open, the "Super Stock Tuners" can stay competitive and race and tune their hearts away.

I think the big difference is with the 13.5 is that you get a pro built Stock motor out of the box. I've been racing for a long time, it takes effort, time, and a lot of know how to get the most out of a good 27 turn stocker. It's a lot more then just cutting the com, changing the springs and brushes. WIth the 13.5 it's like getting all that "done" just buy opening the box and bolting it in. So yea, the guys who struggle in stock will for sure go faster, cause these guys never spent the hours on their motor to make the "jonny fast". Adding the sintered rotor to the 13.5 ups performance even more.

We're always here for emailing and tech calls if anyone needs.

It's [email protected] or 949-833-8873.

Thanks Guys
Charlie
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Old 11-02-2006, 08:29 PM   #349
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Default BRUSHLESS TIMING

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO RESPONDED.

AT LEAST NOW I KNOW ITS NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

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Old 11-02-2006, 08:43 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
It would be interesting to see if the slow guys used the fast guys 27T motors if they would be a lap or two faster. Novak said that a 13.5 is on par with a "hot" stock motor. Like the ones the fast guys use.
Well said. In the 4300 Class we're running, a "well tuned" 19t car can beat up on us by almost a lap. By "well tuned" I mean "top level" or better yet "SPONSORED" driver. A big bad 19t has been faster regularly.

Most of the 13.5 reports are coming in the same from what people are saying, and as we all know, the top 5% are still gonna be at the top 5% regardless. They tune better and drive better.

The greatest advantage to these motors is parity. You'll be hard pressed to find one thats 3 tenths faster than another. Period. Equality is King.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:41 AM   #351
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Hi

I just bought a ss4300 motor to run with my GTB ESC. (the 6.5r that i have a bit too fast for me at this stage)

Was wondering how essential it is to have the
SS5800/SS4300 Brushless Motor Upgrade Kit

Upgrade the Novak SS-Series Brushless Motors (SS5800 and SS4300) with a higher-strength rotor and larger front-end bearing for improved performance. This kit includes one rotor, one front end bell with factory-installed bearing, shim washers, and installation instructions. This kit is not for use with the Novak Velociti-Series Brushless Motors or any non-Novak brushless motor.

is the rotor that comes standard weak?
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Old 11-03-2006, 06:26 AM   #352
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The upgraded rotor will make the 4300 faster but if you're looking for some thing slower than the 6.5 you're on the right track. If you want to try an upgraded rotor the rotor and large bearing front endbell from your 6.5 will fit on your 4300. Just be careful when you pur the rotor in because it's a tight fit.

[QUOTE=BlueR1]Hi

I just bought a ss4300 motor to run with my GTB ESC. (the 6.5r that i have a bit too fast for me at this stage)

Was wondering how essential it is to have the
SS5800/SS4300 Brushless Motor Upgrade Kit
QUOTE]
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Old 11-03-2006, 05:36 PM   #353
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You don't "need" the upgrade. The motor will function fine as is.

5908 is the sintered rotor, and 5920 is the endbell. Again, these are not needed, but they will help keep things cooler.

Thanks
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Old 11-03-2006, 06:27 PM   #354
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I just put in a 13.5 in my MRE and I love it. I don't have to count the number of run on the motor. I can run as many packs as I want without taking a part the motor. Kind of like going to battle with unlimited bullets vs a 6-shot revolver.

I have a CO27 pro completely stock motor. It only spins at 23K rpm. One the the guys at the track showed me his motor. His spins at 33K. So how can I compete with that. As long as we are not using hand out motor, it will never be fair. Some people will cheat regardless of what motor we use. I just want to have fun racing against my own time. If my lap time improves, I am already winning.

I think 13.5 stock brushless motor or similar product will help bring more people into electric RC. I know many people just want to have fun and not working on their motors.

One brush motor guy said that brushless is too expensive. How can that be. a GTB is about $20 more than a GTX. a stock brush motor is $30 plus $4-$10 for a pair of brush every week. Plus a good lathe for $150-$300. In 6 months time, running brush motor will costs 2-4 times more than brushless. plus many hours working on the motor. Money wise or time wise, brushless is a winner.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 11-03-2006, 07:12 PM   #355
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Is it me or does the 13.5 seem a little noisy?
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Old 11-03-2006, 08:08 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightaway
I just put in a 13.5 in my MRE and I love it. I don't have to count the number of run on the motor. I can run as many packs as I want without taking a part the motor. Kind of like going to battle with unlimited bullets vs a 6-shot revolver.

I have a CO27 pro completely stock motor. It only spins at 23K rpm. One the the guys at the track showed me his motor. His spins at 33K. So how can I compete with that. As long as we are not using hand out motor, it will never be fair. Some people will cheat regardless of what motor we use. I just want to have fun racing against my own time. If my lap time improves, I am already winning.

I think 13.5 stock brushless motor or similar product will help bring more people into electric RC. I know many people just want to have fun and not working on their motors.

One brush motor guy said that brushless is too expensive. How can that be. a GTB is about $20 more than a GTX. a stock brush motor is $30 plus $4-$10 for a pair of brush every week. Plus a good lathe for $150-$300. In 6 months time, running brush motor will costs 2-4 times more than brushless. plus many hours working on the motor. Money wise or time wise, brushless is a winner.

Just my 2 cents.
Amen to that brother I'm switching to brushless my self a lot of guys at my track don't mind running a brushless system.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:35 PM   #357
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Another advantage: The brushless motor is consistant becasue it does not require motor building.

After trying my 13.5 setup. One of my racing buddy is getting one for his car. He said that each time he rebuild a brush motor, sometimes the motor is faster sometimes not, so he had to adjust his driving to suit the brush motor, after 6 packs he has to adjust again. With the 13.5 setup, the motor is constant everytime so he can focus on driving instead of adjusting to different motor performance.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:45 PM   #358
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Default stock brushless motor

Hi Guy's

Where can I get one of these Novak 13.5 stock motors from ?

Chris
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:48 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedrace
Hi Guy's

Where can I get one of these Novak 13.5 stock motors from ?

Chris
Try your LHS it's a novak product so everybody have them.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:54 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightaway
Another advantage: The brushless motor is consistant becasue it does not require motor building.

After trying my 13.5 setup. One of my racing buddy is getting one for his car. He said that each time he rebuild a brush motor, sometimes the motor is faster sometimes not, so he had to adjust his driving to suit the brush motor, after 6 packs he has to adjust again. With the 13.5 setup, the motor is constant everytime so he can focus on driving instead of adjusting to different motor performance.
Running Brushless system= Less pain in the rear.... Thats why I'm getting one I just want to focus on driving and setting up the car. After 6 long years of rebuilding motor race after race I had enough of this crap and also I'm tired of buying freaking motors every month just to keep up with the competition.... But now I have too much crap to unload wife won't let buy anything until I get rid some of my stuff.
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