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Old 10-06-2006, 10:45 AM   #316
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im currently running a 96t with a 38 pinion.

I believe I can safely go up one or two more on the pinion..

my rollout I try to run is 1.17-1.20
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:47 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy
Well it does not sound like you have a 13.5. Because if you run one you will find it is very much like a stock motor. Do not just go by numbers on paper. It is on the track that you will know how it compares.
Well, actually, I have 4 of them. However, I've only raced it once against brushed. From what I've read about them being faster, I undergeared on purpose because many people were watching the debut of the brushless 13.5, and I didn't want the brushless to seem too fast. Later in the night, I conservatively geared up, and turned over faster lap times than brushed. My motor came off cool as a cucumber. I haven't even started to task this motor at all. I wasn't even trying hard. Old set of 3700 batteries, and I didn't even have any tire sauce on, and was slipping all over. Yet I still did some faster laps.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:02 PM   #318
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Well I've done 5 race meetings now on two different tracks (one indoor tarmac and one outdoor concrete ) running in the brushed stock class and can honestly say that the ontrack performance is very close to a stock motor.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:14 PM   #319
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Many people say "very close", but please define that. Have you also geared way up yet? Put a huge pinion on until the motor starts to get warm after a race.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:22 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poop
thanks for the reply
is it because the lower temps allow for higher gearing?
do i need to buy the velocity end bell conversion in order to fit the sintered rotor?
thanks again

Poop, All the 13.5's I've seen are in velocity cans. Some folks (see post #303) on this thread have stated a few were shipped in SS cans. I don't know of anyone who was shipped an SS 13.5. If you have a velocity can, you are all set. No need to buy a new endbell. If you aren't sure, and have a few $ to spend, you could buy the lightweight velocity endbell. You'll have some spare bearings that way. You need to remove the endbell to replace the rotor anyway.

btw - the sintered rotor isn't legal (ROAR) for any BL. Not that the 13.5 is legal for stock either. You will need to check with your track for their interpritation.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:26 PM   #321
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A good stocker on a TD profile suggested by Big Jim would have peak wattage around 145W 2 years ago and they have only gotten better since then. With the different test methods used to dyno brushed & brushless motors you can't compare the results and expect it to track real world performance. I haven't tried the 13.5 motor but in my experience the 5800 motor runs comparable to a good 19T that would have a peak wattage much closer to the figures listed for the 4300.

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Old 10-06-2006, 03:32 PM   #322
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145W? I've never seen anyone report a 27T brushed with that kind of power on Turbo Dyno.
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:58 PM   #323
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145 was an exceptional monster but if I was able to get 1 just image what the motor builder see as their top stockers. I personally never ran anything less than 135 and I would consider that average.

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Old 10-06-2006, 04:13 PM   #324
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Mine definitely has an SS can. I wrote Novak's customer service email on Monday and they haven't replied yet. Sucks.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:58 PM   #325
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Since the motor is sensored shouldn't it hold a constant rpm/volt and since these pull less amps shouldn't that make the battery issue almost irrelevant because voltage loss at low amps will make good and bad batteries very close?
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Old 10-07-2006, 02:47 AM   #326
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Well the 13.5 that ran today with us wouldn't come in under 180 degF after every run. No mater what gearing it still was too hot. It even thermalled atleast 3 times.

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Old 10-09-2006, 06:25 AM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts
Since the motor is sensored shouldn't it hold a constant rpm/volt and since these pull less amps shouldn't that make the battery issue almost irrelevant because voltage loss at low amps will make good and bad batteries very close?
No batteries are still a player. I do not believe that the RPM is limited.
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Old 10-23-2006, 01:20 AM   #328
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Default Help please

Help please.
we (two local racers) ran 13.5 motors this weekend to test if it is comparable to brushed.
And we actually came up to around the same times if we would be running a optimum tuned motor, we came up just a tad bit slower (within 1 second or so)with the 13.5 than with a brushed.
We did have to gear about one tooth up than usual to get the right feeling.

I did notice when I let off throttle the 13.5 motor had a big lag to get back to speed, kind of lag before applying power back to the motor.
which was not too bad with the right trigger control..but would like to a more consistent feel.
How do I fix this? if possible or is it just the character of the BL 13.5
or do I need to change a setting on my GTB, which is on factory default setting (at least I think it is).

Any help/advice would be great.

ohh...just as side note, not having to mess with the motors between rounds....well let's just say I had a fun day at the track completely STRESS free at the track...I forgot what that felt like on race days.


Pro-Brushless forever
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Old 10-23-2006, 11:03 AM   #329
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Yeah, once you go brushless, you'll never go back. There's nothing like knowing everyone has the same exact power output from race to race, week to week. This also makes it very helpful when making slight changes to the car setup or driving style. You'll know the lap times are reflecting the setup change or driving change, and not the motor. With brushed, the power consistently fluctuates as the brushes and comm wear in better or start getting worse.

As for gearing, you are undergeared. I had to go way up, were talking like 10 teeth. In fact, for our 76' oval track, I had to order a spur gear smaller than 88T because I ran out of pinion gear room (I was using a 43T pinion). Robinson Racing makes 78T, 81T, and 85T spur gears. Of course, I'm running 1/12th scale and it does not use a 10th scale rear pod, and I do not have CRC's extended rear pods. So, 1/12th cars like the KSG, or Mini Mav will have more room than the CRC Razor II for gearing. Nonetheless, you need to gear up.

It's pretty early in the racing season, but so far, the 13.5 brushless has proven to be slightly faster than the brushed motors. So far, our local record for brushed is 58 laps. I easily did a 59 lap with the 13.5 motor. And there was driving mistakes and definately room for improvement. From experience, I'd say I could do 64 laps if everything went well.

My lap times are faster, about 0.10 - 0.20 seconds faster than brushed, and more importantly, the speed does not fall off in the end like it does with brushed. I ran a few times mixed together with them, and I pulled them in like a freight train in the last 1.5 minutes. Less battery is used up during a race, making it less important to have the best of the best batteries. It also makes it easy to recharge for the next race, as a repeak takes a much shorter time.

I really haven't asked this motor to work it's hardest yet. The motor still comes off warm, I haven't even tried to gear it hotter yet. I'm frustrated at Novak for making this stronger than a stock 27T brushed motor. The brushed guys won't let us run with them. But vice versa, we will let brushed run with us, because they are slower.

Someone posted that the 13.5 wasn't a "torquey motor". Well, they haven't geared correctly or they mispoke, because this motor has a lot of torque. You need to gear accordingly, and unfortunately, you'll leave the brushed guys in your dust.

Last edited by James35; 10-23-2006 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 10-23-2006, 12:17 PM   #330
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Default Not overgearing

I don't want to overgear the pinion...I'm trying my best to stay in the same gear range as before..if I ran 6.89 before then I would like to stay around that same gearing...I am trying to get the classes to run together..so I don't want to overgear because of the fact that the motor can handle it..
trying my best to keep it even with everyone else..

On my RDX (carpet touring track) i would normally run a 32-33 pinion with a 112 spur for a brushed motor
so for the brushless i went to 34 with the 112 spur (started with the 33 but had the lag), changing to the 34 help a bit along with the setting the EPA to +30 on throttle. Think the changing the transmitter EPA help the lag to dissapear a bit....but was wondering if there is a way to even out the lag on the speedo.

Any help with adjusting the speedo would be great.
I didn't see a big difference in times running this way when comparing the a optimum brushed motor.
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