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Old 10-02-2006, 07:32 AM   #301
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For gearing, just keep gearing up until it slows down or thermals (overheats).

I have no idea about sedan but in 12th I went from a 1.78 rollout to a 2.23. This motor is faster than stock in 4 cell 12th...

The biggest issue with running them with brushed stocks is the fact that they don't fall off like a brushed motor. I was a little faster up front and a lot faster after about 6 minutes.

From what I saw running last night it was less sensative to battery voltage than a brushed motor. Ran the same basic times with good packs and bad packs in 12th.
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:20 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
From what I saw running last night it was less sensative to battery voltage than a brushed motor. Ran the same basic times with good packs and bad packs in 12th.
That's probably due to the fact that brushless is more efficient than brushed, and therefore is pulling less amps from the battery allowing the voltage to stay higher.

How much faster were you at the beginning of the races? Stock rotor?
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:42 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
The 13.5 comes with the older style endbell and rotor, like the 4300 and 5800. This means it can't take the sintered rotor, but probably can take the SS upgrade kit, and then in turn take the sintered rotor.

Obviously, since it's tuned with being true to stock in mind, you wouldn't want to make these changes. Just an FYI though, I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.
I own two of the 13.5's the first came with the SS end bell. Novak's info site said it came with the upgraded bearing so I called the tech dept and , the first batch of motors(30 or so) went out with the ss endbells by mistake. Novak is sending my the upgraded endbell and rotor pak free of charge. The second motor I got came with the uppgraded endbell and rotor. With the upgrade the sintered rotor will work.
As for gearing, in my FK-04 @ 140 degrees in five minutes it was as fast as two of my friends 19t brushed motors on practice batteries. I'll be racing it friday under the close scrutiny of the track owners. I'll try and post the results on the weekend. Be Blessed
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:45 AM   #304
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In our 4300 class, the motors are so even that we're really starting to see the differences in batteries. There's not really a whole lot to tune on the motors (yet), so the only way to buy more speed is to get better batteries. We're also starting to notice that the guys that drive smoother can gear up more, go faster and not have issues with thermaling. The guys that shoot in and out of corners are struggling with heat issues.

Now that a lot of us are moving to LiPo, it's starting to even out the battery issues too. I'd say it's about the most parity you can get in electric racing right now.
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:51 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings Kid
I own two of the 13.5's the first came with the SS end bell. Novak's info site said it came with the upgraded bearing so I called the tech dept and , the first batch of motors(30 or so) went out with the ss endbells by mistake. Novak is sending my the upgraded endbell and rotor pak free of charge. The second motor I got came with the uppgraded endbell and rotor. With the upgrade the sintered rotor will work.
As for gearing, in my FK-04 @ 140 degrees in five minutes it was as fast as two of my friends 19t brushed motors on practice batteries. I'll be racing it friday under the close scrutiny of the track owners. I'll try and post the results on the weekend. Be Blessed
Very interesting. I sent them an email to find out more about it.

There's no way the 13.5 should be anywhere near a 19T. It's considerably slower than a 4300, and even the 4300 isn't quite up to speed with a good 19. We've done a good amount of testing with it locally, and have found that it's pretty damn close to stock in sedans.
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Old 10-02-2006, 05:46 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
In our 4300 class, the motors are so even that we're really starting to see the differences in batteries. There's not really a whole lot to tune on the motors (yet), so the only way to buy more speed is to get better batteries. We're also starting to notice that the guys that drive smoother can gear up more, go faster and not have issues with thermaling. The guys that shoot in and out of corners are struggling with heat issues.

Now that a lot of us are moving to LiPo, it's starting to even out the battery issues too. I'd say it's about the most parity you can get in electric racing right now.
Its been so good to hear that the 4300 class is turning out just like we all hoped. I've heard nothing but good stuff about the class.

And now I'm finally ready to join the fun this weekend.
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:15 PM   #307
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OK, now I'm a little pissed at Novak. Concerning their 13.5 stock motor, on their website they say,
Quote:
Team Novak has had many requests to come up with a brushless equivalent to a 27-turn stock brushed motor. After much field testing on dirt and tarmac (asphalt) with some of our team drivers, we have come up with a wind that gives nearly identical lap times as a stock brushed motor. The Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motor is the result of all this testing. It provides lap performance similar to a 27-turn racing stock brushed motor, but with the brushless advantage of minimal maintenance, long life and increased run-times a definite plus for drivers who want to spend more time driving than wrenching.


After all that "testing" and I see now the 13.5 has 165 watts of power!!! Argh, no wonder we are hearing a few reports that the 13.5 is faster than 27T brushed. 27T brushed motors produce 130-135W of power.

I swear, all of these "supposedly stock" motors that keep getting faster and faster are going to stump the growth of this hobby. Novak had a great opportunity to introduce the first brushless motor that was supposed to be close to a stock 27T brushed motor. Instead of releasing something that had, say.. 125-130W of power, they go and up it again. That's a shame too, because the brushed guys would have been much more willing to let the brushless motors run with them, especially if the brushless motors were slightly slower.
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:23 PM   #308
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but check out the rpm its quite low. i guess the extra power makes up for it
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Old 10-05-2006, 10:27 PM   #309
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Yes. It is a common misconception that RPM determines speed. You need to look at both RPM and Torque to determine the power of a motor.

As Big Jim used to say:
746 Watts = 1 electric horsepower
"Horsepower is horsepower! Speed then, is just a matter of gearing. HP (Watts) = RPM x Torque"

Read this
post by Chuck Kimbrough, the owner of Kimbrough Products.

Quote:
Thousands of people buy competitive R/C racing cars kits every year, but only a few hundred stay with the hobby very long. The reason it doesn't grow is the high drop out rate. If you happen to run into an ex-R/C car racer, ask them why they quit. The answer I hear the most is, "the cars got too fast and it took too much time and money to be competitive".
Another good thread on the topic: Why should we be made to slow down"

Last edited by James35; 10-06-2006 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:09 AM   #310
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brushes are not cheap. Plus you have to spend time on the motor. I am new to electric and I am lazy.

Brushless is perfect for people like me that don't want to mess with the brush motor. I think it will bring more people into this hobby. all u have to do is buy a novak brushless set and drive until the motor falls a part. Too bad I can't race with the brush guys. maybe we should start a novak 13.5 turn class.
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Old 10-06-2006, 01:33 AM   #311
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hi all. if i was to add the sintered rotor to the 13.5, do i need anything else apart from the rotor? if so, what do need? also, if i use the sintered rotor, will it give me an unfair advantage?
cheers.
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:15 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
OK, now I'm a little pissed at Novak. Concerning their 13.5 stock motor, on their website they say,




After all that "testing" and I see now the 13.5 has 165 watts of power!!! Argh, no wonder we are hearing a few reports that the 13.5 is faster than 27T brushed. 27T brushed motors produce 130-135W of power.

I swear, all of these "supposedly stock" motors that keep getting faster and faster are going to stump the growth of this hobby. Novak had a great opportunity to introduce the first brushless motor that was supposed to be close to a stock 27T brushed motor. Instead of releasing something that had, say.. 125-130W of power, they go and up it again. That's a shame too, because the brushed guys would have been much more willing to let the brushless motors run with them, especially if the brushless motors were slightly slower.
Well it does not sound like you have a 13.5. Because if you run one you will find it is very much like a stock motor. Do not just go by numbers on paper. It is on the track that you will know how it compares.
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:17 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poop
hi all. if i was to add the sintered rotor to the 13.5, do i need anything else apart from the rotor? if so, what do need? also, if i use the sintered rotor, will it give me an unfair advantage?
cheers.
Some of the oval guys here have treid it. In the 13.5 they did not see a performance gain. Only a lower temp. But when they used it in a 5800 there was a slight advantage with speed. Temp stayed lower than before. It seems the lower wind the sintered has a speed advantage. At least in thier testing.
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:21 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy
Some of the oval guys here have treid it. In the 13.5 they did not see a performance gain. Only a lower temp. But when they used it in a 5800 there was a slight advantage with speed. Temp stayed lower than before. It seems the lower wind the sintered has a speed advantage. At least in thier testing.

thanks for the reply
is it because the lower temps allow for higher gearing?
do i need to buy the velocity end bell conversion in order to fit the sintered rotor?
thanks again
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:35 AM   #315
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I was thinking about getting a 13.5 for my Cyclone. How should I gear this motor? So far I've heard that I should gear pretty high. I'll be running a 100t 64p spur, so should I use a 35 to 40 tooth pinion? Sorry for my noobness, this is my first TC.
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