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Full Travel Stock Racers??

Full Travel Stock Racers??

Old 06-20-2006, 12:50 PM
  #106  
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You simply can't FORCE people to race in a particular class. This is not only the case for RC, but for all racing in general.

Do you see FIA FORCING a driver to move from Formula 3000/GP2 to Formula One? Do you see Nascar FORCING a driver to move from the truck series to BGN? Do you see them stopping the Cup drivers from racing BGN?

By the same token, you can't stop the manufacturers from handing out bonuses.

What ROAR CAN do is create incentives that would make drivers WANT to move up.

Better awards for 19Turn over Stock? Better awards for Mod over 19Turn?
Discounts on race entries for making the A? No discount for stock....50% discount for 19Turn...100% for Mod?
Free entry into the Worlds for those who qualify?
Top billing and exposure for Mod & 19Turn (to a lesser extent) winners on all ROAR publications? None for stock winners.
Higher priority for reserved pit space?

Now I'm not saying these incentives are any good...just shooting from the hip. I know there's inherant problems in them. I'm sure many of you can come up with some really good ideas.
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Old 06-20-2006, 01:03 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by seaball
i am going to put in a vote for yes on that.
LMAO....The great seaball has spoken!!

EA
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Old 06-20-2006, 01:13 PM
  #108  
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....and to address the second issue of "Most major events aren't ROAR sanctioned" and therefore the problem still exits.....

Well, if ROAR creates a system of advancement/incentives...then it is the racer's obligation to support those events, and those events only.

If a non-sanctioned event has an 'open' policy and you don't agree with it, then don't go. If you don't like the service at a particular restaurant, do you keep spending your money there?

Some people won't care either way. Some will.
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Old 06-20-2006, 01:22 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by PW
Schumacher doesn't pay travel for stock racers, but maybe we should!!!
I'm in! Time to build a track and practice every day.....oh wait did I say practice???? hmmmmm maybe that is why these guys are that good
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Old 06-20-2006, 01:36 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Randy Caster
Marc should run stock. Tamiya would sell more cars.
Ha! Ha! That is a great point! Because we all know that stock championships sell more cars than modified championships.
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Old 06-20-2006, 07:41 PM
  #111  
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As convoluted as the original message was, there is some validity to the issue if the topic continues to return after every major touring car race in the US. Seems as though many who fervently disagree with the assertions that there are too many ringers cherry picking in the stock classes seem to be in the grey area to begin with, too. That's just my opinion—I don't attend major races, it's only what I see in the final results and magazines.

One of my big pet peeves in anything is someone who complains about a problem yet offers no logical solution in return. If there is such an overwhelming problem in major races with factory, pro and even sponsored drivers filling the stock classes to collect wins, podiums and A-mains for their sponsors, then come up with a solution or an alternative. I don't have any solutions to the problem, but the race promoters (ROAR, etc) need to have more control, that's for sure. Scotty Ernst has the right idea, but his events are not sanctioned races. Hmmmm, maybe Scotty should run for ROAR President? But I digress...


Here's my take on this. In my mind, years ago stock used to be a proving ground for amateurs and non-sponsored racers as a "sport" class. You made your way in the stock class in any form of electric R/C racing to learn and gain experience for future endeavors in modified racing later on—where the real challenge was.

Today, the problem is that at a National level, there is no class anymore for amateur or sport racers who don't have someone giving them parts, cars, batteries or motors. It's not even the free or discounted parts that quantify the class, but the spirit of competition. It is dominated by racers who obviously have the talent and company support to race at a faster ahd higher level, but choose not to. We all know who they are and what teams they race for.

There were many here who have cried, "why race at all if you can't race against the best" in making claims that if the best guys in stock raced in modified, then you wouldn't be beating the best that racing has to offer. You can say the exact same thing about the guys cherry picking podiums and trophies in stock who really belong in the C or B modified or 19T mains (or maybe even the A). What is their excuse for not wanting to compete against the best, if that's what it's all about?

I don't race at big races for a few reasons, but one of them is that as an everyday Joe racer (and hobbyist) who spends his own dollar to race and attend races, I don't feel the need to travel great distances to be in an H stock main somewhere, or worse. Especially when I see the same 10-15 guys at the top of the results pages, and knowing full-well that they have been or are pimping products for more than a few companies, and have had their mugs in magazines on more than a few occasions. I don't need to spend 3 heats trying to stay out of someone's way, hoping to not get screamed at for making an error in the wrong place at the wrong time. Kinda takes all of the fun out of attending a major event.

The fact is, in ROAR, there are 3 "Pro" classes at major races... fast, faster and fastest. Amateurs need not apply.



doug

Last edited by squarehead; 06-20-2006 at 09:08 PM. Reason: silly typo
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:31 PM
  #112  
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NORRCA

Who said that??

Brant
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:37 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy
So are you saying that people like Travis would have won if any single person that was in the Modified A main was racing him in stock?No he would have been smoked,thats why real factory guys dont run stock. They will run it untill they relize that going 5 miles an hour around the track isnt for guys who are sponserd.
I actually had about 1/100th bit of sympathy for your logic behind starting the thread, but the statement I quoted blew all that out the window. There were drivers in the 19T A main who's best laps were 14.6's and 7's. Travis ran a 14.7 in one of the stock mains, so to say that a "mod" driver would have ran away with the stock class is obserd.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:43 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
And what driver with any integrity would get any satisfaction from winning a class racing against other drivers far below his skill and ability.
TTT
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:47 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by burbs
P.S stock class at cleveland was won by Stephen Sobottka 2 years ago or so.. he was not full factory.. he won one of the most prestigious races there is..

stock at this years carpet nats was won by Jarod Langlois.. He was also not full factory..

these guys did the work and it payed off..
These are two very good examples, and both guys worthy of winning for there efforts, but the main point he is hung up on is the "teams" who come in full force for the stock class and cover everything for their guys to get there and compete for the stock title.

I don't think he is saying that a "schmoe" can't compete, he is just arguing the point of "is this what racing has come to in the USA".
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:51 PM
  #116  
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Three words can best describe this problem.... Blah, blah... blah!
I think the phrase "beating a dead horse" comes to mind.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:52 PM
  #117  
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If you are a non factory stock racer and you come to a top level race telling yourself "man, I can't compete with the factory guys," then you are already beat before the race even begins.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:53 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
Today, the problem is that at a National level, there is no class anymore for amateur or sport racers who don't have someone giving them parts, cars, batteries or motors. It's not even the free or discounted parts that quantify the class, but the spirit of competition. It is dominated by racers who obviously have the talent and company support to race at a faster ahd higher level, but choose not to. We all know who they are and what teams they race for.

There were many here who have cried, "why race at all if you can't race against the best" in making claims that if the best guys in stock raced in modified, then you wouldn't be beating the best that racing has to offer. You can say the exact same thing about the guys cherry picking podiums and trophies in stock who really belong in the C or B modified or 19T mains (or maybe even the A). What is their excuse for not wanting to compete against the best, if that's what it's all about?
......
The fact is, in ROAR, there are 3 "Pro" classes at major races... fast, faster and fastest. Amateurs need not apply.


doug
Doug, you hit it on the head. It's not about making it easy for slow people. It's about fast people who don't move on.

BTW, I'm real stupid, I'll keep going to big races and getting my head stomped. I don't care who I race and get beat by. Kinwald in stock? Fine.

Most people are not like this. They will quit. And then it will be like oval...only the hardest of die hards
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Old 06-20-2006, 09:05 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Brandon Melton
If you are a non factory stock racer and you come to a top level race telling yourself "man, I can't compete with the factory guys," then you are already beat before the race even begins.

So simple a concept, and yet to hobbyists and the majority of RC racers, it's a fairly common thought process. We don't make a living with a killer competitive instinct... this is still toy car racing, right?

It's not that I "can't compete with the factory guys" (well, I can't, but that's beside the point), it's that I don't WANT to. Has nothing to do with gear or equipment, because I can buy anything I want to race with, and mulltiples of the best gear if I really want to. It's about knowing what class I belong racing in, to compete with people of equal ability and talent, and knowing that if I can be the big fish in a small pond, that I deserve to try out that bigger pond in the future.

Sorry for the metaphors, but it IS a pretty obvious and pressing issue if it continues to bother so many racers. And it's not a dead horse. Just because you are tired of hearing about it doesn't mean it isn't a valid issue.
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Old 06-20-2006, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed

I don't need to spend 3 heats trying to stay out of someone's way, hoping to not get screamed at for making an error in the wrong place at the wrong time. Kinda takes all of the fun out of attending a major event.
That is a very valid point and to me is something that should never happen. I am sure it is frustrating for a top level stock racer to qualify with the beginner racer, but you know what, YOU ARE AWARE OF THE RISK before the event even begins. Accept for ROAR events, it only takes one round, and for no reason should someone be yelled at for making a mistake. Yes, they may have cost you time, but if you are in the class to "represent" the product, then yelling at slower drivers is about the worst representation you could ask for.

And on the same note, it also earks me when I see lower mains that have these same drivers who didn't have the luck they wanted at a race, to goof off during that lower main when there are racers who truely want a shot to win the race they have qualified for. It is just bad for the integrity of the racing, and disrespectful to the other racers, when come to think about it, could very well be racing the same car you represent. Hmmm, I race car ABC, and ABC driver just wrecked me because he/she doesn't feel worthy of being in my main, really makes the person want to continue racing that car.
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