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Old 06-21-2006, 03:31 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Anthony.L
80% or more of all motor and battery sells are stock. That's a company's main target cliental. Company's sponsor drivers to highlight their product so it sells to the average joe club racer. It only makes sense that they will put their sponsored drivers in the stock classes.

It's simple business.
Much like the 600cc classes of motorcycle racing around the world.

Full factory sponsorships = wins = good PR = more sales to regular Joe's = greater profit = fat cats attending the Monaco GP where there good friend (driver) stops by to have a chat after a mishap...

Wish I were there.
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Old 06-21-2006, 03:36 PM   #137
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The mind set of some of these companies is "if we give this and that guy a 50% sponsorship deal OFF OF RETAIL and make him sign a one year contract, he will be a customer for SURE for us for one year".
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Old 06-21-2006, 03:43 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by imprsme
The mind set of some of these companies is "if we give this and that guy a 50% sponsorship deal OFF OF RETAIL and make him sign a one year contract, he will be a customer for SURE for us for one year".
Bravo !

Its like a "mail order sponsorship".....
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Old 06-21-2006, 04:15 PM   #139
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I don't think that sales of the Cyclone are hurting because Hara doesn't have a stock national championship. No matter what class these guys win, they are going to sell cars. As far as "cherry picking" goes. I would think that you would have to move up to mod (and be competitive) and THEN step down to stock in order to be considered a cherry picker. Barry Baker is not looking for a stock national championship. If the fast stock guys want to continue racing stock, then that is the guy you have to beat to win the title. They don't become better drivers just because someone gave them a chassis and a plane ticket. They got the chassis and ticket because they were good to begin with. To quote a couple of my friends "it's only a hobby" so "shut up and drive".
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Old 06-21-2006, 04:32 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
Much like the 600cc classes of motorcycle racing around the world.

Full factory sponsorships = wins = good PR = more sales to regular Joe's = greater profit = fat cats attending the Monaco GP where there good friend (driver) stops by to have a chat after a mishap...

Wish I were there.
i raced 600 supersport about 10 years ago and I bought and and tuned my own Kawasaki 600, my best friend was full factory suport bike and there was a night and day difference between our bikes, with his bike I could go alot faster ( about a second and a half faster ) than my prep bike, even if we had bacically the same parts he had expert tuners for motor and suspencion.

Having full support helps out alot. But atleast I beat him twice with my stock bike
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:22 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Cuffs
this thread is out of control lol once a year one of these threads pops up
Yep, as I add fuel to the fire...

If stock is supposed to be the "amateur" or "beginner" class then why do they call it stock and not "amateur" or "beginner"?

Nick
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Old 06-21-2006, 06:40 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
Funny how some perceive the valid complaints about guys in stock class that obviously don't belong there as "whining" but they don't have any opinion on why these racers choose not to actually race against the best drivers in the world in the Modified classes.

doug
Hmmmm, here's some speculation, much of which I already posted above.

if you really look at the top ten in Mod at most major On-Road events, it's comprised of individuals who spend their ENTIRE lives on R/C. Baker, Hodge, Burch, Dumas, Darroch, Toso, Lemieux etc. live this stuff. They work in the industry, they race all over the world; it's rc all day, every day for these guys. Not all the "full factory stock guys" can dedicate their whole lives to racing, and unfortunately that's really what it takes to compete consistently at that level. I mean really how many employment opportunities are there at the Major Manufacturers?

Many of the fast stock guys have to work for a living, or they go to school. Perhaps their life goals don't include a job in the industry, but since they're faster than the average stock class racer, they're supposed to move up to a class they can't compete in, because they can't devote their lives to it like the ACTUAL pros do? What has been suggested we do to them puts them in the same place those who proposing it are in now. I guess if it moves you up a main or two at the Nats that's okay I rarely hear the F-Main Mod Guys whining about moving the fastest Mod Racers to 1/8th On-Road because they're too good and get too much help to stay in Electric TC.

You said it yourself: "High-Level Stock Racing"

Move out the fast guys and it ceases to be High-Level......
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Old 06-21-2006, 08:23 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Kwik
Yep, as I add fuel to the fire...

If stock is supposed to be the "amateur" or "beginner" class then why do they call it stock and not "amateur" or "beginner"?

Nick
I agree. Its called Novice, but ppl are toooooooo proud to stay in that for over three races. lol.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:13 PM   #144
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Well, our racing world has changed over the last few years. Way back when, in the early '90s, it used to be that as you improved in Stock, the manufacturers noticed you and would offer you a ride if you moved to Mod. Stock was kind of the proving ground.

There were also fewer manufacturers back then. Battery matching was a pretty new concept, and not many were willing to pay for a matched pack. There were no motor tuners, you bought Trinity motors from Trinity and Kyosho motors from Kyosho. These companies did not have deep enough pockets to fund everybody, and 50% deals were rare.

Now, we've got dozens of battery matchers and I don't know how many motor tuners out there, and they all want their names mentioned as often as possible. And the car manufacturers have figured out that a 50% sponsorship is more profitable than selling to the distributors for 40% of retail. It also gives them another voice out there saying good things about their products.

So whatever your opinion may be, I think this is our new world and it isn't going to change any time soon.
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Old 06-21-2006, 10:49 PM   #145
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"Gotpez" is correct!!! Things have changed. There used to be a "Gentleman's Agreement" about what stock WAS. Just as anything that happens in time Gentleman's agreements go out the window and then we rely on the black and white. For us that is the motor rule. If you want to run a 27X1 motor then run stock, a 19X1 motor enter 19Turn and anything else run Modified. We are classified by the motor not the ability or how much you spend. (Or are given) Anyone can run anything.

You go to a national event to find out who is the best in the nation. You should enter these at your own risk. Manufacturers take these serious!! High Preasure!!!!!!!!!

You go to a regional event to have fun with racers you know from other tracks and find out who is the best in the region. Manufactures want a good showing but it is more of a public relations chance and a test and tune for the Nationals. Medium Preasure & More fun for everyone!!!

You go to a Club Race to have FUN and to Race your buds!! This is Smack Talk Central!!! This is where the Sportsman Classes belong!! This is what drives the hobby and makes the first two even possible. Manufactures like a good showing but would much rather a sponsored guy to help people and promote their products than pile laps on their customers. Stress is as much as you make it here!!!!! This is where the famous MidWest quote "It's just a hobby, Have fun Racing!!!!" comes into play!!!!

It is up to each racer to make a decision on just how far they want to take their involvement in this hobby/sport. You can have alot of fun at the club level. If you step up to regional and national events it gets less and less fun and more and more work!!
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:12 PM   #146
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Everyone who races stock needs to give these "Factory Stock" guys a big Thank-You!! Just a few years back you would only find Modified Chassis Set-Ups on the Web. Now you can get Set-ups just for stock. This has made everyone out there faster if they want to admit it or not!! The first thing anyone does when they get a new kit is go to the web, look for building tips from these guys on the company forums, download one of these guys set-ups and start adjusting the car to meet their own driving style from there. The learning curve and pile of broken parts while testing for the right set-up is greatly smaller thanks to their information.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:43 PM   #147
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Club races are for honing your skills. Big races are for showing the world what you've got. Don't go to a big race expecting anything other than to win, or learn from people better than you.

There are enough nuances between stock and mod racing beyond just the speed of the motors that require expertise to truly master. Some guys (especially those who aren't paid, or don't race for a living) will prefer the decreased expense of stock racing. For others, mod is where it's at. Each requires a certain kind of skill, but it's not fair to say one is a step up from the other. Maybe it used to be that way, but times have changed.

Save the bashing for your club track, and stay home from the big races until you can bring it. If you go to learn, that's great, but don't cry because you can't keep up with guys doing the same thing you are. If you want to be the best, you have the beat the best. If you don't, stay home, or quit whining about placing in the D main.
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:00 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
Hmmmm, here's some speculation, much of which I already posted above.

if you really look at the top ten in Mod at most major On-Road events, it's comprised of individuals who spend their ENTIRE lives on R/C. Baker, Hodge, Burch, Dumas, Darroch, Toso, Lemieux etc. live this stuff. They work in the industry, they race all over the world; it's rc all day, every day for these guys.
Yep an you wanna go ask ANY AND ALL of them how they got those COOL jobs!!! They ran stk. won some races, got a 50% deal (motor/battery & chassis and maybe an electronics deal) After winning Stk. nationals and regionals they all MOVED up to mod. (back then there really wasn't a 19t class) Well after moving up to mod. they again won Regionals, nationals and WORLDS! Then that is when most got that nice RC for life job...LOL

I bet all or most of them were just like the "factory stk. guys" we are talking about right here. I bet they had "REAL" jobs or school and went to BIG races just like all of us do!

Did you really think Baker, Francis, Hodge, Toso, Easton and the list goes on started out with the FULL on Travel/Race jobs they have now. I highly doubt it!

Like someone posted earlier there was a time when you only had 4 or 5 guys in MOD that had ANY HELP at a national event! Now think about how many guys at your local CLUB level that have SOME form of help. Now also think about how many that win one club race or have been racing for 3-4 months that have ask you "hey how do I get a sponsor"?

But as someone else posted, we should be glad that companies are helping these guys out, because in the long run it does trickle down to US the customers.

And I still like to run with the "FAST stk. guys" to see how far I am off, OH and don't let them have an OFF day and me beat them....cause they are not going to hear the end of it!
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Old 06-22-2006, 11:59 AM   #149
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:52 PM   #150
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150-odd posts and 4,700+ page reads so far... someone must be interested in this topic—even if you don't care, Brian.



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