New NOVAK smart tray SE
06-13-2006, 09:34 PM
#4
Tech Regular
so it can hold a cell indefinitly at 0.9volts indefinitly??
if it does i'm not sure if that is actually equilizing... consider this 2 cell scenario...
cell A reaches 0.9volts and the tray holds the voltage at 0.9volts... the only way it can hold it at 0.9volts is to take more energy out when it rebounds above 0.9volts....
whilst this is happengin, lets say cell B is still at 1.0volts... and at a discharge rate of 2amps, does not reach 0.9volts for another 30minutes....
in the above scenario, cell A has had alot more energy taken out of it than cell B. why? coz cell A has had to be held at 0.9volts for alot longer than cell B.
end results is Cell A has alot less starting energy than Cell B, even though when you take it off the tray they are both at 0.9volts.... you wil notice that when taken off the tray cell A will eventually rebound to 1.2volts, but will do it at a much SLOWER rate than cell B.
if it does i'm not sure if that is actually equilizing... consider this 2 cell scenario...
cell A reaches 0.9volts and the tray holds the voltage at 0.9volts... the only way it can hold it at 0.9volts is to take more energy out when it rebounds above 0.9volts....
whilst this is happengin, lets say cell B is still at 1.0volts... and at a discharge rate of 2amps, does not reach 0.9volts for another 30minutes....
in the above scenario, cell A has had alot more energy taken out of it than cell B. why? coz cell A has had to be held at 0.9volts for alot longer than cell B.
end results is Cell A has alot less starting energy than Cell B, even though when you take it off the tray they are both at 0.9volts.... you wil notice that when taken off the tray cell A will eventually rebound to 1.2volts, but will do it at a much SLOWER rate than cell B.
06-13-2006, 09:52 PM
#5
Originally Posted by XingXing
so it can hold a cell indefinitly at 0.9volts indefinitly??
if it does i'm not sure if that is actually equilizing... consider this 2 cell scenario...
cell A reaches 0.9volts and the tray holds the voltage at 0.9volts... the only way it can hold it at 0.9volts is to take more energy out when it rebounds above 0.9volts....
whilst this is happengin, lets say cell B is still at 1.0volts... and at a discharge rate of 2amps, does not reach 0.9volts for another 30minutes....
in the above scenario, cell A has had alot more energy taken out of it than cell B. why? coz cell A has had to be held at 0.9volts for alot longer than cell B.
end results is Cell A has alot less starting energy than Cell B, even though when you take it off the tray they are both at 0.9volts.... you wil notice that when taken off the tray cell A will eventually rebound to 1.2volts, but will do it at a much SLOWER rate than cell B.
if it does i'm not sure if that is actually equilizing... consider this 2 cell scenario...
cell A reaches 0.9volts and the tray holds the voltage at 0.9volts... the only way it can hold it at 0.9volts is to take more energy out when it rebounds above 0.9volts....
whilst this is happengin, lets say cell B is still at 1.0volts... and at a discharge rate of 2amps, does not reach 0.9volts for another 30minutes....
in the above scenario, cell A has had alot more energy taken out of it than cell B. why? coz cell A has had to be held at 0.9volts for alot longer than cell B.
end results is Cell A has alot less starting energy than Cell B, even though when you take it off the tray they are both at 0.9volts.... you wil notice that when taken off the tray cell A will eventually rebound to 1.2volts, but will do it at a much SLOWER rate than cell B.
Also, how do you figure that a cell would take 30 minutes to drop from 1.0 to 0.9v?
06-13-2006, 09:59 PM
#6
Tech Regular
30minutes came from my head... thats why i said "lets say" ... you can replace 30minutes with X Minutes, but putting a number makes it easier to understand.
its just an example to highlight a plausable scenario.... anyway i have seen cells that are 0.9volts whilst another cell is still 1.10volts. (seen it on my teamwave...)
its just an example to highlight a plausable scenario.... anyway i have seen cells that are 0.9volts whilst another cell is still 1.10volts. (seen it on my teamwave...)
06-13-2006, 10:14 PM
#7
It discharges each cells and hold it on the set voltage. This new smart tray discharge @ 2.7 amps.
Well as we all know at this rate it will take forever to discharge a fully charge packs. What I'm doing is I put my packs on my INDI octane 2 and Then I take it out just about when the light goes out, then I put the packs on the smart tray for equalizing. This way it would not take that long to discharge the cell on the smart tray.
Well as we all know at this rate it will take forever to discharge a fully charge packs. What I'm doing is I put my packs on my INDI octane 2 and Then I take it out just about when the light goes out, then I put the packs on the smart tray for equalizing. This way it would not take that long to discharge the cell on the smart tray.
06-13-2006, 11:38 PM
#8
Tech Apprentice
teamwave tray concept. 
but hey! the extended discharge level of the teamwave is VERRRRRYYYY good!
(it can take almost all the energy in each cell but keeps the voltage pinned at 0.90v per cell.
therefore it accepts more charge and feels punchier
feelin me xingxing?
but hey! the extended discharge level of the teamwave is VERRRRRYYYY good!(it can take almost all the energy in each cell but keeps the voltage pinned at 0.90v per cell.
therefore it accepts more charge and feels punchier
feelin me xingxing?
06-14-2006, 12:26 AM
#9
Tech Regular
teamwave's concept is to lower the discharge voltage as it approaches the cutoff point.
e.g set cut off point at 0.9volts.
step a. discharge to 0.9v at 5amps.
step b. when it reaches 0.9volts lower discharge rate to 4.5amps, as the discharge voltage decrease the volts begins to rise again.
step c. repeat step b) untill discharge rate is 0.5amps... then stop discharging.
as you can see the teamwave does not HOLD it at 0.9v it stops discharging that cell once it reaches 0.9volts at xxx discharge rate.
what i am asking is if the Smart tray INDEFINITELY holds the cell at 0.9V by waiting for the cell to rebound then i dont think that is equilizing.... (unless you leave it on the tray for a few hours)
e.g set cut off point at 0.9volts.
step a. discharge to 0.9v at 5amps.
step b. when it reaches 0.9volts lower discharge rate to 4.5amps, as the discharge voltage decrease the volts begins to rise again.
step c. repeat step b) untill discharge rate is 0.5amps... then stop discharging.
as you can see the teamwave does not HOLD it at 0.9v it stops discharging that cell once it reaches 0.9volts at xxx discharge rate.
what i am asking is if the Smart tray INDEFINITELY holds the cell at 0.9V by waiting for the cell to rebound then i dont think that is equilizing.... (unless you leave it on the tray for a few hours)
06-14-2006, 01:02 AM
#10
Originally Posted by XingXing
teamwave's concept is to lower the discharge voltage as it approaches the cutoff point.
e.g set cut off point at 0.9volts.
step a. discharge to 0.9v at 5amps.
step b. when it reaches 0.9volts lower discharge rate to 4.5amps, as the discharge voltage decrease the volts begins to rise again.
step c. repeat step b) untill discharge rate is 0.5amps... then stop discharging.
as you can see the teamwave does not HOLD it at 0.9v it stops discharging that cell once it reaches 0.9volts at xxx discharge rate.
what i am asking is if the Smart tray INDEFINITELY holds the cell at 0.9V by waiting for the cell to rebound then i dont think that is equilizing.... (unless you leave it on the tray for a few hours)
e.g set cut off point at 0.9volts.
step a. discharge to 0.9v at 5amps.
step b. when it reaches 0.9volts lower discharge rate to 4.5amps, as the discharge voltage decrease the volts begins to rise again.
step c. repeat step b) untill discharge rate is 0.5amps... then stop discharging.
as you can see the teamwave does not HOLD it at 0.9v it stops discharging that cell once it reaches 0.9volts at xxx discharge rate.
what i am asking is if the Smart tray INDEFINITELY holds the cell at 0.9V by waiting for the cell to rebound then i dont think that is equilizing.... (unless you leave it on the tray for a few hours)
The Team Wave tray will hold cells at a set voltage in order to discharge as deeply as possible without going lower than the cutoff point. Of course, with anything, this cannot go on indefinately. This should be obvious. It's like you said, that with a simple cut off some cells can have more energy left in them. So in order to avoid that, you have two options. One, you can use a resistor and get rid of all the charge in a cell, but this will being the cell down to 0v, not good for new cells which need to have a certain level of potential difference in them, or performance will drop. The way the Team Wave tray works is by discharging out as much possible energy while keeping the voltage stable. The way to do this is by continually lowering the current until the cell can no longer physically sustain the voltage. I know this is a real nerd analogy, but it's like the disappearing table problem in mathematics where someone keeps cutting a table in half, will the table ever "disappear?" Basically an infinite series where you keep adding halves (S = 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ...) Theoretically, you can keep going on forever, but in reality there is a point where the equipment can no longer provide a smaller current to keep the voltage constant, so it stops discharging at that point.
06-14-2006, 03:28 AM
#11
Tech Master
Originally Posted by Jochim_18
Any thoughts about the New NOVAK smart tray "SE"? I just picked one up at my LHS. Is this any better than the old one?
06-14-2006, 04:40 AM
#12
Originally Posted by XingXing
so it can hold a cell indefinitly at 0.9volts indefinitly??
if it does i'm not sure if that is actually equilizing... consider this 2 cell scenario...
cell A reaches 0.9volts and the tray holds the voltage at 0.9volts... the only way it can hold it at 0.9volts is to take more energy out when it rebounds above 0.9volts....
whilst this is happengin, lets say cell B is still at 1.0volts... and at a discharge rate of 2amps, does not reach 0.9volts for another 30minutes....
in the above scenario, cell A has had alot more energy taken out of it than cell B. why? coz cell A has had to be held at 0.9volts for alot longer than cell B.
end results is Cell A has alot less starting energy than Cell B, even though when you take it off the tray they are both at 0.9volts.... you wil notice that when taken off the tray cell A will eventually rebound to 1.2volts, but will do it at a much SLOWER rate than cell B.
if it does i'm not sure if that is actually equilizing... consider this 2 cell scenario...
cell A reaches 0.9volts and the tray holds the voltage at 0.9volts... the only way it can hold it at 0.9volts is to take more energy out when it rebounds above 0.9volts....
whilst this is happengin, lets say cell B is still at 1.0volts... and at a discharge rate of 2amps, does not reach 0.9volts for another 30minutes....
in the above scenario, cell A has had alot more energy taken out of it than cell B. why? coz cell A has had to be held at 0.9volts for alot longer than cell B.
end results is Cell A has alot less starting energy than Cell B, even though when you take it off the tray they are both at 0.9volts.... you wil notice that when taken off the tray cell A will eventually rebound to 1.2volts, but will do it at a much SLOWER rate than cell B.
OMG why don't you stop talking bo..ocks once again ? You don't understand how batteries work so please stop making sound like you do.
Anyway, it's very well known that NiMH cells have a high SELF-DISCHARGE rate so if any discharge tray claims to keep the cells at a certain voltage it's more than likely it'll have to provide energy to the cells rather than take it down.
06-14-2006, 04:53 AM
#13
Tech Apprentice
change the term "energy" to capacity. it will be easier to understand
it will be easier to understand
06-14-2006, 04:56 AM
#14
Tech Apprentice
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Anyway, it's very well known that NiMH cells have a high SELF-DISCHARGE rate so if any discharge tray claims to keep the cells at a certain voltage it's more than likely it'll have to provide energy to the cells rather than take it down.
basically, if you remove more charge capacity. the cells will take in MORE of it the next charging period BUT performance wouldnt change at all RUNTIME will just increase
Thats what ive experienced
06-14-2006, 05:19 AM
#15
Not to be a dick, but how about we stick with the scientifically correct term energy? And on that point, capacity does not mean the same thing as energy. Capacity is measured in amps, and since it is an SI unit, is not defined by any other electrical unit. On the other hand, energy is the ability to do work, measured by V-A-s, or simply a joule. Not the same.
Please do not try and spead mis-information.
Please do not try and spead mis-information.
