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Old 06-14-2006, 06:21 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ickvanovs
how much does it cost?
$77 from towerhobbies, I don't believe Novak really raised the price on this, as they discontinued the original Smart Tray.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:30 AM   #17
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Hey XrayFK, the table will disappear. Once you get to the point that the last cut is splitting the atom, you and everything around you could potentially disappear as well.

This is a good discussion/argument. Keep it going guys.

Tony
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by XrayFK
Not to be a dick, but how about we stick with the scientifically correct term energy? And on that point, capacity does not mean the same thing as energy. Capacity is measured in amps, and since it is an SI unit, is not defined by any other electrical unit. On the other hand, energy is the ability to do work, measured by V-A-s, or simply a joule. Not the same.

Please do not try and spead mis-information.
hey guess what? youve started to become one! haha you might want to shove it in your pihole. Mr EINSTEIN!

use whatever term you have, im just trying to share experiences. lol
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by XrayFK
I don't think you quite understand how the Team Wave tray works. They even provide a graph of how it works, check it out on their website.
The Team Wave tray will hold cells at a set voltage in order to discharge as deeply as possible without going lower than the cutoff point. Of course, with anything, this cannot go on indefinately. This should be obvious. It's like you said, that with a simple cut off some cells can have more energy left in them. So in order to avoid that, you have two options. One, you can use a resistor and get rid of all the charge in a cell, but this will being the cell down to 0v, not good for new cells which need to have a certain level of potential difference in them, or performance will drop. The way the Team Wave tray works is by discharging out as much possible energy while keeping the voltage stable. The way to do this is by continually lowering the current until the cell can no longer physically sustain the voltage. I know this is a real nerd analogy, but it's like the disappearing table problem in mathematics where someone keeps cutting a table in half, will the table ever "disappear?" Basically an infinite series where you keep adding halves (S = 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ...) Theoretically, you can keep going on forever, but in reality there is a point where the equipment can no longer provide a smaller current to keep the voltage constant, so it stops discharging at that point.
yes i understand how teamwave works. and i have basically said the same thing.

i.e teamwave will "hold" the set voltage (say 0.9Volts) so longs as it can sustain the 0.9volts given the discharge amp that it is set to.

e.g with the minimum set at 0.1amp discharge rate, so long as it holds 0.9volts at a discharge rate of 0.1amps. once it cant hold 0.90 volts (i.e drops to 0.89volts) it will stop discharging.

this is difference to a diode type tray. which i think the smart tray MAYBE. a diode type tray will discahrge to 0.9volts. then stop. then will drain more energy (yes the correct term is ENERGY) again once it rises above 0.9volts. this method can go on indefinitly untill it drains all the energy. i.e is pretty much what a MM 0-30 does.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:46 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy
OMG why don't you stop talking bo..ocks once again ? You don't understand how batteries work so please stop making sound like you do.

Anyway, it's very well known that NiMH cells have a high SELF-DISCHARGE rate so if any discharge tray claims to keep the cells at a certain voltage it's more than likely it'll have to provide energy to the cells rather than take it down.
No need for personal insults here


you may want to explain your comments before bashing mine.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:47 AM   #21
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yes i understand how teamwave works. and i have basically said the same thing.

i.e teamwave will "hold" the set voltage (say 0.9Volts) so longs as it can sustain the 0.9volts given the discharge amp that it is set to.

e.g with the minimum set at 0.1amp discharge rate, so long as it holds 0.9volts at a discharge rate of 0.1amps. once it cant hold 0.90 volts (i.e drops to 0.89volts) it will stop discharging.

this is difference to a diode type tray. which i think the smart tray MAYBE. a diode type tray will discahrge to 0.9volts. then stop. then will drain more energy (yes the correct term is ENERGY) again once it rises above 0.9volts. this method can go on indefinitly untill it drains all the energy. i.e is pretty much what a MM 0-30 does.
I just thought the way you explained it was a bit off, that's all
And yes, energy, thank you.

And skamolly, how am I being a dick? I simply stated the correct information, because what you wrote was not correct. You are certainly entitled to any opinion you like, but I'm afraid a scientific fact is fact. Are we good?
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by RcCzarOfOld
Hey XrayFK, the table will disappear. Once you get to the point that the last cut is splitting the atom, you and everything around you could potentially disappear as well.

This is a good discussion/argument. Keep it going guys.

Tony
I can see it now...the batteries of the future...anti-matter! lol
Watch out though, if you over charge or damage the cell, you might blow up the entire planet.

Interestingly enough, energy storage in anti-matter would be 100% efficient, if you manage to get around the whole annihilation of anything that comes into contact with it.

Oh, about the problem...yeah smartass The table is just a way to visualize the problem.
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Old 06-14-2006, 07:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by XingXing
No need for personal insults here


you may want to explain your comments before bashing mine.
Quite simply explained. All NiMH cells and NiCD cells self discharge with time. In english their voltage drops as time goes, this is why it is very much advised to partially and periodically charge your packs if you're not gonna use them for a long time (2 weeks in the case of NiMH) and why you NEVER store them fully discharged on a tray.

It cannot be said that the energy in the cells is "lost" either, since what happens is that the electrolytes change state at a slow rate following the same process as when you use the cell, and the energy is converted to heat and not electricity, only at such a small rate that the increase in temperature is unsignificant.

In these conditions, a tray that would claim to keep the cells at a set voltage will have to charge the cells periodically when it falls under the set voltage.
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:35 AM   #24
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Oh, about the problem...yeah smartass The table is just a way to visualize the problem.
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