R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-13-2006, 09:20 PM   #46
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

There will be no savior. If Lipo/brushless take over, then they will be rated, matched zapped etc., only there will be less control on the racer's end. If it makes you happy to run it, cool. There are still MANY issues to be worked out, especially in spec type classes.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 07:21 AM   #47
Tech Elite
 
vtl1180ny's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wrong Island
Posts: 4,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XrayFK
Has anyone posted numbers for a LiPo from a GFX yet? I'd like to see what it is at 35A.
You can't charge a LiPo with a GFX and the numbers would be meaningless compared against a NiCd or NiMh....
__________________
I still lurk....
vtl1180ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 07:50 AM   #48
Tech Master
 
XrayFK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,463
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
You can't charge a LiPo with a GFX and the numbers would be meaningless compared against a NiCd or NiMh....
I was talking about discharge numbers. IR, average voltage, what not.
XrayFK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 07:56 AM   #49
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 272
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

I have seen (and heard) of some pretty bad accidents as a result of neglect and being misinformed with Lipo technology. I fly electric 3d and have been familiar with lipos and brushless for a few years now. I just hope that racers take the proper precaution to prevent disaster. For instance, I have a ceramic bowl with a lid that I use to charge my lipos. That way if there is an explosion or if any of the cells begin to swell, the battery (and maybe the charger will be destroyed as opposed to my health or my home.

llamont
llamont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 12:47 PM   #50
Tech Elite
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Elburn, IL
Posts: 3,428
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
There are still MANY issues to be worked out, especially in spec type classes.
This technology was never intended to be used in a spec type class. (sorry Rob)

The power of brushless is a great way to level the playing playform. I can personally say that I have motors that I never use all of the power from. This allows me to use cheaper batteries and still keep up in open mod class. For me it has been cheaper even though the controller cost $275 and the motor cost $165 because I have been using the same setup for 3 years. The way that brushless will kill the hobby is if too many companies play the roar game and only make roar legal motors. roar events are a tiny part of the entire hobby, the majority of money in the industry comes from people who run cars down the street and across the back yard. Had I stopped buying brushless when i bought a certain companies 'roar legal' system, I would have run away screming about how crappy brushless was. For me, racing without the chance of winning is a waste of my time. I can run my car around the yard for a lot less money and still have tons of fun.

NO matter what technology is used in racing, it will always be expensive. There will always be people who run a different motor in every heat, new tires every race, and new batteries every weekend. This is partially aleviated for me since I have more power than I can use so my batteries are not as important (this is also why i get my butt kicked when we go back inside and run stock motors). This advantage will disappear as the technology becomes mainstream and others use it as well. There will be the cream of the crop LiPloy packs, stronger rotors, and the other aspects that already affect racing today (tires, bearings....etc).

I can only hope for one thing. When brushless does become the way to go, that companies ebrace the advantages of using higher voltages instead of the voltages that we use today. Here is a simple truth, cutting current draw in half, reduces resistive losses by a factor of 4!!!! This means less heat, smaller controllers, and smaller diameter wires. Going to 4.8V is a big mistake.

enough for now, back to work for me.
__________________
Brushes? We don't need no stinking brushes!!!
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 01:46 PM   #51
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamont
I have seen (and heard) of some pretty bad accidents as a result of neglect and being misinformed with Lipo technology. I fly electric 3d and have been familiar with lipos and brushless for a few years now. I just hope that racers take the proper precaution to prevent disaster. For instance, I have a ceramic bowl with a lid that I use to charge my lipos. That way if there is an explosion or if any of the cells begin to swell, the battery (and maybe the charger will be destroyed as opposed to my health or my home.

llamont
I hope you use the same setup when charging your SubC batteries....

We are talking about the status of today's LiPos not 2 years ago. Many advancement have been made (and more will be made), they are as safe as your SubC batteries today. If anyone does not know this, both COULD blow up, BOTH can cause harm if not handled correctly.

You made the point above "I just hope that racers take the proper precaution to prevent disaster." This is very ture statement about a lot of things in R/C. To the 10 year old just starting in R/C with his father, and he is turn marshaling Nitro, look to see if cars are coming at you BEFORE you run to turn that one back over. My point, your statement is ture.... But let's not limit to LiPo, if you are going to dig, then be fair about it.
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 03:27 PM   #52
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman
This technology was never intended to be used in a spec type class. (sorry Rob)
No need to be sorry, TOO TRUE!! There are a lot of people who want to make it fit, though. I just don't see it happening at this time.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 03:49 PM   #53
Tech Regular
 
Juan Valdez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 439
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Not to jump into to much semantics, Matt and Rob, but these technologies were never meant for racing at all, or RC even. RC just leeches onto technologies in other industries and finds a way to use it for its own purposes, if you really want to get down to it.

In terms of spec-type classes, brushless would work just fine. However it would have to completely replace brushed in that class (which is what some want to happen). Brushless probably makes for a better spec class, actually. But personally, I think spec is boring. (I realize some like it, and thats cool. Just my personal opinion, thats all.)
__________________
TLR 22 3.0 | TLR 22-4 | TLR 8ight-E 3.0 | Tamiya TA07 | Tamiya TA05 | Exotek F1R3
Juan Valdez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 03:58 PM   #54
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 140
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk
No need to be sorry, TOO TRUE!! There are a lot of people who want to make it fit, though. I just don't see it happening at this time.
We have a spec class that runs the Novak 4300. Since there is no way to get more (that I know of) out of these motors that what they are rated I think this is the perfect option for spec racing.
Lano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 04:11 PM   #55
Tech Elite
 
Francis M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 4,719
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Well I just read an article on the worlds next month they
had Orion and GM trying thier new brushless systems, so it looks like brushless is gonna be the norm pretty soon for mod at least.

Who know that mod would be more convinient than spec racing. lol
Francis M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 04:17 PM   #56
Tech Regular
 
Juan Valdez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 439
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

And to continue my original post, I respect that people want to win and feel competitve. But if you feel you have to spend more time and money than you're comfortable with to be competitive, consider re-evaluating your priorities in this hobby. Personally, I race because I enjoy the challenge and competition. Not because I want to be the best in my class/track (though I try to move up the ranks). When I start being too competitive and serious about it, it becomes like work and is less fun. I guess I just want people to think about the fun/seriousness ratio for themselves. It is something everyone has to figure out for themselves, as we all look for different things in this hobby.

I just worry the focus of TC racers is too much on what we spend instead of what we can do with what we have. And I'm concerned that too many of the people who debate these issues on the internet are solely interested in their own opinion, and not finding a mutually benificial solution.
__________________
TLR 22 3.0 | TLR 22-4 | TLR 8ight-E 3.0 | Tamiya TA07 | Tamiya TA05 | Exotek F1R3
Juan Valdez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 07:01 PM   #57
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 574
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Winning is for me to beat the other Average Joe who practices just as much as I do (very little ) and has about the same gear I have. That is fun. BUT then he shows up with the new tuned CO27 and some new packs and beats me by 5-10 seconds...and I KNOW that he has not found a better setup or became a better driver since the last week...
That's what drives me to the counter of the hobby shop I don't care about A-main but I don't want to see that cocky a'hole ahead of me stock racing sucks but thats about the fastest I can drive fairly consistent

LiPo and brushless are great, I'm all in but the Orion packs does not fit in my T2 and the ESC's are big like a brick somebody has to do something about these before I invest in the new technology
cvt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 10:20 AM   #58
Suspended
 
McSmooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Served Fresh Daily
Posts: 1,631
Default

McSmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2007, 12:18 PM   #59
Suspended
 
McSmooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Served Fresh Daily
Posts: 1,631
Default

McSmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The future of brushless motors b-man777 Electric On-Road 1 08-02-2007 10:13 AM
FORGET NiMH/LiIon/LiPo/LiMn - H-Cells are the future! dr_hfuhuhurr Electric On-Road 29 04-13-2007 08:06 PM
Looking for 1/10 brushless and lipo gndprx R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 3 12-21-2006 04:28 PM
Choosing a Brushless unit: Reedy vs Novak vs Tekin (future) Cain Electric Off-Road 8 06-09-2006 07:30 PM
Brushless is the way of the future envirojay Electric On-Road 40 01-20-2006 08:27 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:23 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net