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Old 06-12-2006, 02:34 AM   #1
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Default Creep vs Drag brake

Hi

I hope creep is the right term, I understand creep to be your car set so that it moves forward even if your throttle is in neutral. If creep isn't the right term, please correct me

For clarity, drag brake is when you set it so that your motor brakes when your throttle is in neutral. Once again, correct away

Ok, so which to use? It probably comes down to driver preference, but I'd like to hear some people's opinions on it before I get too used to one way of doing it. Also, would one way make more sense than the other depending on which class you run it?

I've been playing with drag brake on my ESC lately, and it pointed out to me that I was going through corners in neutral. I adjusted my driving style a bit and now it works well for me. I've heard though that creep is the faster habit, since with a one-way especially, you do want some throttle through the corners. This means that I have to practice braking though
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:39 AM   #2
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i drive with a one way. i never touch the brake anyway. i find it faster to have some forward roll, especially in mod where the magnets are strong and has a natural braking effect anyway.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:54 AM   #3
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this is a article from todd hodge i found that was very good
Strategy is Key
Horizon Engineering Manager John Adams shows the rest of the field how it's done.

Our previous article on driving tips generated some interesting responses. Several full-scale road racers and go-cart drivers commented on how similar their driving techniques are compared to RC car racers. It seems that full-scale racers commonly refer to "goal points" as "hitting the marks." Interestingly, these full-scale racers are focusing on some of the same fundamentals as RC car racers.

This time, we'll go into more detail about driving techniques, including creep and getting consistently good starts.

John's XXX-S creeps around a corner.

Creep!
No, I'm not talking about the guy that took you out during the last qualifier. Creep is a technique that many top drivers (especially in stock class) use to help maintain corner speed. When you let off the throttle, the mechanical friction and residual inductance of the motor create a slight braking effect. This braking causes a weight shift to the front of the car that can cause the car to over-steer entering a high-speed turn (the rear end wants to come around). While some expert drivers prevent this by not letting off the throttle completely when entering a high-speed turn, many drivers find it easier to bump the throttle trim up to the point that the car rolls slightly under its own power when the throttle is released. I've been using creep for years and it's especially helpful with stock class sedans in maintaining high corner speeds. Try it! I think you'll like it!

Getting Off to a Good Start
With electric races lasting 5 minutes, (8 minutes for 1/12 scale) getting a good start that gets you to the front of the pack is critical. And while that first turn pile-up seems inevitable, it's amazing how top drivers seem to consistently emerge from that first turn, laying near the front of the pack virtually every time! The key to consistently good starts is developing a good starting strategy and technique.

Develop a Starting Strategy to Your Specific Condition
Not all starts are alike. The strategy used when starting from the pole in a widely spaced staggered start is very different than starting from the middle of the pack in a crowded heads-up start. It's important to develop a starting strategy that offers the best chances of emerging from the first lap chaos near the front of the pack.

Important factors to consider when planning your starting strategy include:
Starting position (pole position, middle of the pack, bringing up the rear)
How much the cars are staggered on the grid (space between cars)
The available traction
How well your car accelerates and how well it handles during acceleration
Knowing the driving habits of the racers directly in front of and behind helps!
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:10 AM   #4
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Here's what I've found. Running 19 turn (and I'm sure stock would be about the same) I like to let the car creep. Set the throttle trim so that the car will roll a little at neutral. This will help the car flow through the corners and maintain more cornerspeed. Most tracks you don't need the brakes much if at all in 19 turn so there's no need to run drag brake. Now running modified, I run about 20% drag brake. The reason being that many of the tracks I run on are pretty tight and do require some brakes at least once or twice a lap when running modified. The increased approach speed of modified can make the car push wide if I let the car roll a little. So by adding the drag brake, it slows the car down, but it shouldn't wash the front end out, when running a spool, or cause the back end to want to spin, when running a one-way, like hitting full brakes will. It'll allow some weight transfer to get the car to steer a little more into the corner and slow it down quick enough to help make the corner. Trying to hit 20% or 30% brake with your finger consistently is not an easy thing to do so drag brake will allow you to use the same amount of brake lap after lap.
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:29 AM   #5
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Thanx guys, that's good feedback. I'm going to give creep a try, especially since I'm not running mod yet

teammidget: Does Todd Hodge have more articles? If so, where could I find them? They sound interesting.
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:38 AM   #6
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yes todd has 4 of them i print them out and take them to the track every time.
here.
Under standing your cars suspension
http://teamlosi.com/Articles/Article...ArticleID=1562
Indoor Driving Tips, Part 1
http://teamlosi.com/Articles/Article...ArticleID=1299
Track Time
http://teamlosi.com/Articles/Article...ArticleID=1045
Indoor Driving Tips, Part 2
http://teamlosi.com/Articles/Article...ArticleID=1311
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:55 AM   #7
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thanx! will definitely read them
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kerr
Now running modified, I run about 20% drag brake.
Do you prefer to use drag brake as a trim on your transmitter or do you use a program on the ESC?
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Old 06-13-2006, 07:44 AM   #9
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I prefer to do it on the speed control. I run a Keyance so it's really easy to fine tune it to an exact percentage instead of being 1 or 2 clicks it's 20% or 21%.
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Old 06-24-2006, 03:33 AM   #10
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Last weekend I tried out creep as per your guys' advice. Our track layout changes every week, so I ran 1 pack in the same layout we raced the previous week, with the exact same settings as I raced, which used drag brake. Then I ran two packs with the only change being disabling drag brake and adding some creep on the radio. After the 1st pack on creep I'd improved my best lap with 3 tenths of a second, with the 2nd pack I'd improved another tenth, so 4 tenths better than my best on drag brake in total. The timing was just done on my radio, so it's not very accurate but it's still not a bad indication I think. So I'm definitely gonna stick with creep, until I start racing mod atleast
This was with a 23 turn motor btw
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