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Old 06-09-2006, 08:32 AM   #106
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Just did a little more research. Looks like from what I can tell AMB is using RFID for their signal. There are all kinds of hacking tools (called skimmers) to clone an RFID signal. So what Terry and co probably did is figured out a way to get that cloned signal into their PTs and improved on the design of the PT.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html

http://eprint.iacr.org/2006/054.pdf

Just a guess. I could be wrong though.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:50 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
Kevin, what Terry isnt saying it but my understanding is that the code in encrypted on there and they are somehow unencrypting it. Its not as simple as running your PT under the loop and getting a # out of the software. Its probably more along the lines of hacking the PT.

It is probably along the lines of an RFID hack (those badges you use to scan into a building). There are readers that can steal the signal and then clone it to break into buildings, etc. Im guessing it is the same basic concept.
You're right or8ital it's encrypted but it's not RFID. There is no real number you can 'see' apart from the number that comes up on the screen which is the same as the ID number on the case as you already know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaball
with your signal boosting, used to eliminate missed laps, will we be at a larger risk of double counting? especially on small carpet tracks that don't have infields. right now, our short lap lockout is a used pretty often with our track layouts. it's not always possible to protect the loop from passing traffic in another adjacent lane. will the i-PT require more physical isolation from the loop if you do not want it to trip?
Don we've had our 'Bug Booster' out for a while now and we have not had any problems, the important thing it does is to keep the PT working at all times. The i-PT has a similar power booster inside plus a much improved voltage regulator circuit (with a 1.5V minimum voltage input as opposed to the normal 4V minimum input). With exisiting PT's the signal reduces as the input voltage drops so the signal actually gets weaker, what the booster circuit does is to maintain a constant 6V output, ie the i-PT outputs a constant signal which is the same as the signal that's output by an AMB PT when it's operating at 6V.

Last edited by Terry_S; 06-09-2006 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:00 AM   #108
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Ok Guys:

I just found this thread. So my question is if I send you a perfectly working AMB Personal Transponder you can clone it as many time a possible? Is there a graduated price for more than one unit (ex. 3 or more). Also how does the free shipping part work. I live in Canada.

thanks.....
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:07 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.5man
Ok Guys:

I just found this thread. So my question is if I send you a perfectly working AMB Personal Transponder you can clone it as many time a possible? Is there a graduated price for more than one unit (ex. 3 or more). Also how does the free shipping part work. I live in Canada.

thanks.....
Its all in the thread.

Terry, can I suggest you edit your first post and put in a FAQ section with everything youve been asked multiple times?
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:07 AM   #110
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terry,

you are the man. it is not frequent that the company reps that come here to answer questions actually can in an intelligible message.

this sounds awesome.

and once again, burn in hell amb.

- don -
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:19 AM   #111
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Hi 7.5man, yes we can clone as many as you want. The www.rclaps.com website does not yet have the details of our limited offer to replace broken/damaged AMB PT's, basically it's an offer to replace a PT with an i-PT cloned on the same number. The free shipping is only for this offer, multiple ordering prices are not finalised. As or8ital says it's all been covered in the thread!

-

Thanks Don, if we can help and do anything to improve things we'll give it a try but sometimes it's not easy to change things. AMB are a big company and I guess they won't change things unless they have to. If the racers decide to do what's best for them when given a choice then that's good, if not then things will just stay as they are.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:34 AM   #112
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Someone brought this up earlier, but it doesn't seem to have been addressed yet.

What happens if someone buys 7 PTs all of the same cloned original AMB PT and then sells all of their "spares" individually on eBay or elsewhere? Now you have PTs out there all with the same number. I can see this becoming a BIG problem in the monopolized, yet organized AMB numbering and scoring system.

You obviously can't police your customers reselling them individually. I love the idea of multiple PTs with one number for all of my cars, but the resale market and ridiculous used value of original AMBs makes selling new PTs too much of an appealing prospect for more than a few unethical individuals.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:53 AM   #113
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There is also other benifits to this for track owners.

1) can get multiple sets of different case colors for their hand out transponders(clone all 10 of the hand outs and have each set in a different case color)

2)don't have to worry about multiple clones of the same number being run at the same time for they will be hand outs and not personals and a lot cheaper

3)multiple tracks can use the same numbers(cloned hand outs)

Terry, something to think about would be purchasing hand out transponders from tracks that close and use those numbers in those hand outs for I-PTs without need of owning a PT for cloning. Or find say 10 tracks and see if they would all agree to having the same numbers on their handouts(take one set and clone sets for each track, and then use those that were not used(be roughly 100 or more) and sell those as new I-PTs without need of owning one prior, but for a slightly higher price,like say 10-15 more.

Last edited by T. Thomas; 06-09-2006 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:40 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
we take the precaution of having the owners name embedded inside the case it should discourage 2nd hand sales, but for those people that have both AMB PT's and i-PT's with their ID# it's down to them to not sell on their AMB PT, you are right it could cause problems but the chances are quite small. If there were ever two on the same ID at the same meeting and I was the race director I'd have to question the i-PT owner to find out why he/she sold their AMB PT on 2nd hand and caused a problem! The solution could be to enter them in different races and hope they're not in the same main/final, if by chance they were the AMB PT guy would have priority, sounds fair.
Hi ApexSpeed, I did answer this question earlier, the owners name along with the ID# is embedded inside the case. We do also require a signed declaration that the owner of the ID# will be the sole user of the ID before we supply any i-PT's to them. If they did sell their original AMB PT then they could end up in the situation I've described.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:55 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
There is also other benifits to this for track owners.

1) can get multiple sets of different case colors for their hand out transponders(clone all 10 of the hand outs and have each set in a different case color)

2)don't have to worry about multiple clones of the same number being run at the same time for they will be hand outs and not personals and a lot cheaper

3)multiple tracks can use the same numbers(cloned hand outs)

Terry, something to think about would be purchasing hand out transponders from tracks that close and use those numbers in those hand outs for I-PTs without need of owning a PT for cloning. Or find say 10 tracks and see if they would all agree to having the same numbers on their handouts(take one set and clone sets for each track, and then use those that were not used(be roughly 100 or more) and sell those as new I-PTs without need of owning one prior, but for a slightly higher price,like say 10-15 more.
T. Thomas, there are a few possibilities like the ones you mention, some are workable and others are not, if several clubs were to co-operate then it would work out ok. Club handouts are not likely to be used outside of the club that owns them so there could be the chance to make use of their numbers. I can see that with handouts being more expensive, having on-going rechargeable battery replacement costs and being harder to buy (they don't appear to be on the AMB website) then clubs are more likely to find personals a more attractive option to buy into.
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:32 PM   #116
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Terry - What did you think about my pm?
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:54 PM   #117
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hey Terry, you haven't answered my PM yet today
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Old 06-09-2006, 07:52 PM   #118
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terry,

can your i-pt's be reprogramed with a different number,
or once its programed thats it?
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:55 PM   #119
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This is a really good idea, I also see the same problems as have been mentioned. I think they can be worked around though. Terry, is there any way to make your own unique ID's for them? If you could, This would open a lot of doors and bring in a LOT of business to you. With the lower price, It would get a lot of people to buy them that are fed up with the outrageous prices of the AMB PT's. I like the idea of having all my cars on the same number. Then I wouldn't have to memorize all of them, just one. As far as the shipping goes for the "if you want it back," if the person didn't need it back 2 days earlier, couldn't you just put it in the same box as the new one? Is that little bit of weight going to really jack the price up that much? It almost to me,(I am sure that is not the case) sounds like you are being penalized for wanting it back. This is only my opinion, just trying to help out a little bit. I am very happy that someone is finally coming up with a solution to this monopoly though. Great work.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:11 PM   #120
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Terry- I got a question that may have been answered already. If I send you my working AMB PT and want to get 2 clones do I get my origonal PT and the 2 clones back?
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