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Old 06-08-2006, 03:51 PM   #121
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On the spec motor... Idea... when you show up to the track and 10mins before the start of racing, everyone that entered into the spec class, must toss their motor into the box..... then one by one, you hand the motors back to the racers... My point, what you tossed in, is not what you will race, so all your games to make it faster, just went out the window.

We use to do this in go-carts with fuel, but that was a problem because one Jack A## would put something in the tank that messed up everyone's motor, his included... so they started "pull up to the grid and fill your tank" from a definded company and oil mix. That was it, you had to run that fuel and mix.

Same idea above, on the motor.... or the track hand them out, and charge a rent fee, at the end of the day you hand them back... until the next race...

The bottom line on a spec class in my eyes is ONLY for the newbie, or novice, so if you make it less expensive, and the person must move up, (if they get say 22 laps in the 5 min heat), what is the point of all the playing with the motor... Spec is for novice only... after you leave spec. you can not go back, you are out, and moving onto stock... If this is the case, what is the point of all the game playing with the motor... It is only get to get you of the class faster, then you can play with the motor all day in stock...

Just a couple of thoughts....
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:05 PM   #122
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Spec motor - the answer to me anyway is obvious. Have a brushless class (novak 4300) the motors are reasonably priced, run forever, and doesn't need to be fiddled with.

In my opinion what drives people away from this hobby is the complexity. It's tough enough learning how to drive and set-up a chassis let alone all the BS that goes along with tuning and maintaining motors. Add on the additional equipment needed to perform that maintenance and it scares people away.

The best option for a beginner is a RTR w/brushless (XXX-T) and a ONE lipo battery. A 4000mah Lipo can be had for about $60 and a inexpensive charger for about the same. With that set up your ready to race and have little or no maintenance on the motor and battery.

Now we just need the tracks to support such a class.
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:55 PM   #123
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Spec classes are always great in theory but have never lasted. Legends...gone. All Trinity's spec racing program....gone. Five degree oval motors...gone. It just doesn't work. You want to offer this up as newebie or entry level class and you'll find out what has already been experienced. These racers can neither be found in great numbers to support these classes nor are they the group that spends the money to support shops that would carry the product.

Helping new racers is something but it's also not really the answer. Does it help in some cases...yes. Is it something that'll keep the majority racers from leaving....hardly.

Best idea so far is from fast track....entry level cars that are ready to really race. Maybe if the manufacturers would get together and all produce RTR kits that are extremely similar, maybe that could work as an option. Real race cars with premounted GOOD tires, all the same capacity cells and REAL stock motor with entry level speed controls and radios. After a driver is ready to move out the class, this car could compete in a "sportsman" stock class if the track has numbers to support it. At least the car could still be used at the next level.
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:44 PM   #124
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I think it comes down to the racer just doesn't have fun anymore. Whatever it is the drove him to race in the first place is lost. Maybe it just gets old? Maybe there are too many other hobbies to choose from.

Good topic!
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:52 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCThunder
I think it comes down to the racer just doesn't have fun anymore. Whatever it is the drove him to race in the first place is lost. Maybe it just gets old? Maybe there are too many other hobbies to choose from.

Good topic!
Thats the #1 reason imo way to many hobbies to choose from lol and alot of them are alot less expensive
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:09 PM   #126
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I remember when the Serpent Impulse was all plastic and you could buy it for $224.99 (only six years ago). Nitro Kits have gone up 50-100%.
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:09 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X2
Honestly, you complain about your fuel prices but in the UK prices are up and over £1 a litre (about 1.86USD)

You're fuel prices seem very attractive to me indeed!
I've only been back for a year or so. And gas prices have a big in fluence on me and my kids going racing. Our gas prices are $2.63 a gallon right now. I just wish they were that cheap. JMO
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:16 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeetleBailey
I've only been back for a year or so. And gas prices have a big in fluence on me and my kids going racing. Our gas prices are $2.63 a gallon right now. I just wish they were that cheap. JMO
Beetle, that $1.86 a LITER (LITRE for you Brit's) There is approximately 3.7 liters to as US Gallon. That's about $6.88 a GALLON.
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Old 06-08-2006, 08:06 PM   #129
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Reasons i left the hobby.. well i didnt leave i just quit racing..

1) Certain people who week after week just feel they need to suck every bit of fun out of this HOBBY..

2) I was to consumed.. I did eat sleep and breath rc.. I just got a new job this year, and i was already thinking what days to take off.. It cost me a very well paying job once before.. it wont happen again..

3) For the most part i met my goals.. I always wanted to go out of state, and TQ and win a national event.. I did TQ one and finished 2nd.. good enough.. I race oval..

4) The money to a point.It wasnt that i couldnt afford it,but I just bought a house.. My mortgage is 700 more then the rent i was paying.. Thats pretty close to what i spent on rc monthly.. It was an easy decision..

To touch on spec racing... Ive never ever seen a spec class last more then two seasons.. Its not cheaper either.. In any form of racing you push every envelope to find some way to be better or faster.. There were gusy who had lots of money, they would buy 20 motors, sift through and get the fastest ones,, then pawn off the lower stuff on the slower guys..

What i would like to see.. Is a brushless motor the same speed as a stock motor.. this would be huge for spec racing.. It would keep the cost alot lower.. for everyone.. No maintinance, easy tech ect ect.. But it is key to set the speed right.. Brushless 4300 is huge in the midwest..(oval) But there is alot of guys who just plain can not handle the speed.. Its about as fast as 19 turn.. You need something a normal person can handle.. The nice thing of brushless is it does level the feild for the guys who are competitive.. But it does hurt the guys who arent as fast..

i remeber when rubber tires was all we ran for touring on carpet.. You could only get the car to work so well.. the gap between fast guys and average was closer.. take and average guy and throw him in with foams and the gap gets larger.. There is no real way to equaize anything...
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:03 PM   #130
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I agree with most of the comments on Spec classes. They just don't work. Even if it isn't someone buying a ton of motors and batteries looking for the best, as soon as one person figures out the car, motor and battery combination and starts lapping the other racers, the class will be doomed.


So, if you want a CHEAP class that is exactly what spec tries to be, we have it in Zanesville, Ohio. We call it the Sportsman class. It only works for oval, but you can't cheat and spending money gets you nowhere!

The class is simple. Our stock oval racers are usually putting down laps between 3.8 and 4.1 seconds. So, our Sportsman class has a limit of a 5 second lap. You go faster than that, the lap doesn't count. Call it oval bracket racing if you want. You've never seen a group of racers have more fun than in this class. It also takes out any bias toward chassis, motor, battery, charger....

My car is an old 10L3O. I've got a Reedy 19 turn motor set to 0 degrees timing. I've got an old 6 cell battery pack. That's right, pack, singlular, only one. It never comes out. I race 3 heats and a main with it and maybe a practice or two. The throttle end point on my radio is set anywhere from 50-53%. Best part of it.... I run an HPI 1965 Shelby Mustang body! And my car is comptetive. I put a new set of foam tires on my car at the beginning of the season this fall and ran them the whole year. I'll easily get another full season or two out of them. And guess what, these tires were a race prize!!! They were an odd compound that nobody uses, but they work in this class!

Other racers are running brushless 4-cell. Some are running Traxxas Stinger motors wired to run in reverse with the old Hyperdrive belt system. Some are just running 4-cell stockers. Some run touring cars, or 12th scales and on occassion we've even had some off-road vehicles. If it will go in a circle, there's a good chance you can run it in this class.

This is one of the biggest classes at our track most weeks. Some of these are racers running a second class (that's what I do). It's a blast, and anyone can be in the hunt to win. We've had newer racers running up front as well as seasoned old farts like me. It's all about consistency and running clean laps. The drivers stand is usually filled with a lot laughs and tons of trash talk, all in good fun!

What's even better is that you never know who really won until they print the results.... All it takes is to cut the corner just a LITTLE too tight and you cut that .01 second off our lap.... 4.99 seconds and it's like the lap never happened! You went from winner to being a lap down! So, we get the fun of racing on the track and then we get to make fun of the driver who got caught speeding when it's over!


It's only unfortunate that we can't find a way for a class like this on road course... sure would be fun.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:59 PM   #131
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the weekly hand out sounds good until the racers want to practice (day of race or otherwise). what are you going to do, cut every motor each week so they're "equal"? you're right back where you started. what about a second set of practice motors?.. wait that's more money out the door again. its just not feasable or reasonable for everyone involved.

The only thing that can really cut the cost of the hobby are the racers themselves. they must come to realise that they drive the "necessity to win" with their competitive nature.

breakout classes can be fun if people realise the objective is to learn how to set up the car, how to pace yourself.. i think that might be something to look at locally. thanks for the reminder.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:46 AM   #132
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The novelty of controlling something wirelessly is, well, not what it used to be. R/C was way ahead of its time, but now days, it's looked at by a lot of people as a novelty. I mean, I'm typing this from my wireless keyboard, mousing with a wireless mouse and online using wireless Internet. All gaming consoles ship with wireless controllers, and the graphics are almost like the real thing.

Sectors of this hobby are supported by people who are nostalgic for their childhood racing, and dumping piles of cash into it now since they can afford the nice things. Those people won't be around forever.

The kind of person it takes to afford and stay interested in R/C long enough to be competitive isn't the kind of person you generally find in R/C. :-(
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Old 06-09-2006, 06:33 AM   #133
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I have been doing this for roughly twenty years off and on again. I enjoy working on the cars and painting bodies. I also enjoy getting out and socializing with people. Yes, family commitments take priority.

I have several high end touring cars, but my favorites are my two M chassis cars. I am gooing to purchase a Tamiya spec car. I have tried to race stock and 19 turn, but have come to the conclusion that the small tight rough track is not easy to drive with that kind of power. Last week I sat out one of my heat races and turnmarshaled it. On the old tennis court we use as a track almost half the field dropped out because of mechanical problems.

What I believe is happening is that people are buying the high end cars they see racing on large asphalt tracks or in small carpet tracks and trying to race them on small tracks. The cars do not have the durability to race in a traffic jam on a tight circuit.

I have raced in classes with few cars and it does not seem to be a problem.

As I mentioned before, I am buying a Tamiya spec car, I am not alone. Several racers with more than a years experience are/have done the same. They have posted thier high end cars on bulletin boards for sale and stated they will continue to race in a spec class.

This is not really a money issue, the LHS is selling many monster trucks and 1/8 buggies and there are several off road tracks that are doing well from what I have heard.

There was some discussion about racing organizations. It appears that there are several touring car races that have national status scattered throughout the year. Most of these follow ROAR rules, but are not the Nats. 1/8 Nitro used to be this way. It seems that R/C car racing is waiting for a "Bill France" to bring the drivers and race race events together and create series.

ROAR seems to be an SCCA organization. They try to remain independent of the manufacturers and a amatuer organization. This tends to limit thier efforts. The local club I belong to is not a ROAR club. Yes we generally follow ROAR rules. Most of the racers t hat travel to larger events almost exclusively travel to the TCS events. I do not think it is a money issue, since several spent great ammounts o money on these cars. They seem to tell of the atmosphere and enjoyment.

I know I have gone beyond my two cents, but after reading this thread all week, I had to respond.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:43 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason
the weekly hand out sounds good until the racers want to practice (day of race or otherwise). what are you going to do, cut every motor each week so they're "equal"? you're right back where you started. what about a second set of practice motors?.. wait that's more money out the door again. its just not feasable or reasonable for everyone involved.

The only thing that can really cut the cost of the hobby are the racers themselves. they must come to realise that they drive the "necessity to win" with their competitive nature.

breakout classes can be fun if people realise the objective is to learn how to set up the car, how to pace yourself.. i think that might be something to look at locally. thanks for the reminder.
I here what you are saying, but if you use the 540 motor or something like it, the brushes last for a very long time. So cutting the comm is not needed. If you work on your motor and someone ends up with it, then you are out of that time you spent. Look most people are going to have two motors at the price about 18.00 per motor, compared to the cost of the part replacement of runing full stock, this is a cheap way to get started. Bottom line, Novice (spec) or what ever you want to call it, is only for the newbies. Remember the faster you go, the sooner you will be moved out of the newbie class.

If you want to run a spec class for the other driver, feel free to do so. But keep newbies together, until the driving skills are developing. Not to keep them out of the way, but then your more experinced drivers can help them, if they are not on the track at same time.
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:45 AM   #135
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Ardin has started his postive post... Sharing how what has worked in growing the hobby...

Check it out..

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=116977
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