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Old 06-07-2006, 08:14 PM   #91
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Bottom line is, racing isn't cheap. The higher the level that you attempt to race at, the more you spend. All forms of racing, including r/c is just a money pit. What's the percentage of racers that make money? SUPER SMALL! You have to be willing to just throw away money on a continual basis.

Many people get into this hobby run some races at the novice level, then step into stock. Then they take a series of a$$ whippings over an extended period of time while throwing away more money at the same time. Now in some smaller areas, they may get to run towards the front after a while but in areas where there's a ton of good racers, they get beat all the time. New racers soon realize either they're spending way too much money, haven't spent enough and aren't willing to spend more or they're tired of just getting their a$$ kicked. Most really just get tired of losing. The fun sorta fades after losing so much and they can't figure out why. I've seen many come and go over my 20 years. This discussion always comes up but I've found....as the economy goes, so goes the racers. When the economy is down, the race crowds tail off. When it's good, people have money to spend and the hobby sees an upswing.

The racing portion of this hobby is not and has never been for "the faint of wallet". If they don't have excess money to spend on a consistent basis, they won't be around for long no matter what you do.

I now choose when, where and how often I race. I don't try to make every race these days and fortunately I have sponsorship to help absorb some of the cost. I'm also careful not to buy into every gimmick item or new hop-ups along the way.
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:21 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
I can tell you that for me, a bunch of them ring true...

Onroad "stock" class is a joke. If it was actually "stock"(or spec), I'd probably still race it.

Our local track (revrace.com) is AWESOME. They have a huge sign hanging on the track that says "EVERYBODY WELCOME". The owner won't turn anybody away...you have a car that's off-road capable, you can run it. They're friendly and helpful (one of the track guys helped me out big time last week) and it's never the case that you get an attitude from them. Signups never close, they'll give you a rain check if you don't race (shit happens... )...you name it...there's not a more friendly place to go. They almost always have a beginner class for 1/10th, 1/8th and truggy.

There's NOTHING worse than showing up to race and having to run with people that are several levels better than you. It's not fun for me or them and just makes for hard feelings on both sides.

Moral: They're standing-room only on Saturday nights for offroad...spectators along the fence, racers in the pits kids running around (not my favorite part...LOL)...you have to park a block away, it's crowded, dusty and loud...and gets more crowded every week.

Hats off to Dana (the owner)...he's a big-time onroad guy...but he actually gets it. He gets the fact that this stuff is supposed to be fun, and that not everybody is looking to make it a profession. They have pros out there for sure, but it's not an overly competitive environment that caters to only the pros.
This sounds like a place I would love I'm just getting into RC myself got me a decent deal off of ebay for my XXX-NT 1 Gallon ran through it bone stock for $255 and I'm loving it, but that's just it there are so many people that have been doing this for years I go to a hobby shop and I feel so embarrased because I have no clue really how to do anything so I just stay at home and bash where I can't get judged or turned away because I know nothing. I would love to meet some people or a hobby shop that will accept newbs like me and show me the ropes. If I met some people willing to help I would be into racing and wouldn't mind going to the track but other than that when I go to the track I'm just the track clown
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:30 PM   #93
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One of the biggest problems I've noticed is all the in-fighting at local clubs or tracks. Years ago it used to be all about the fun, today it appears to be all about winning. And he who has the biggest bank account and can afford to buy the best of everything makes it worse for those on a limited budget. I've heard many times... "I don't stand a chance of winning, why bother racing?"

It also seems that the track owner/director can never make anyone happy. Nobody wants to do anything to help their racing venue out. All everybody wants to do is come in, race, pack their stuff and go home. Then when their favorite track closes down because the few that did ALL the work became burned out and quit, guess who the racers were mad at? Yep, the track owner because he quit. Go figure!
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:33 PM   #94
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Why are people leaving the hobby???

1- The Internet... Forums like this and others tend to give newbies the wrong idea about this HOBBY. We have the chassis of the week, the body of the week, the new GP9900's are coming out and so on.... You don't need all that to go to a club race and have fun. Don't look at the guys over 30's equipment, we have much more money than you and many of us have been in this hobby long before you were born, it took us many years to amass our collection....

2- SPONSORSHIP!!!!!! We come bace to the internet being partly responsible for this. This is a HOBBY, you are not going to be the next Kinwald or whoever. Maybe you'll be that lucky still who is in the right place at the right time, but it's doubtful. So the newbie comes to a forum and low and behold all these people are listing they are sponsored by Team Upchuck and running LotsaAmps batteries. Newbie wants free stuff too.... Goes to his local track and there's the fast guy telling everyone how he get's his motors and batteries and all his other sponsors. All fine and dandy that you are playing with a toy car in the basement of a retail store and you're getting free stuff. But now this kid (or adult) with a limited budget buys his RTR a few sport packs and a timed charger. he then runs around the track breaking his brand new "hobby grade" car and spends the majority of the track time he paid for fixing it... Between the cost of the kit, parts and track fee's he realizes he isn't eating this week... So he gives up....

I've been in this hobby for too long, and I come and go faster than the wind.... I miss racing in the late 80's to early 90's when it was just so much more simplier... These are TOY cars, I've got my full size toy cars which if I have a choice between a new TC or a part for my real cars, the little toys loose...
I still lurk....
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:49 PM   #95
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I have to be honest, I haven't read too many posts in this thread yet....

I think the reason people are leaving is because this stuff isn't cheap! Like the person 2 posts up said, it costs money to race. Traxxas makes all of it's money making cars that people can drive in their backyard with no brains.... plus, anyone can buy an entry level Tamiya Gravel Hound or Traxxas Rustler for under $250 with an ESC, a battery, and a charger. All pretty basic, a stick pack with a Twin Peak charger, and a basic set of tools. Nothing fancy......

Now, go out and buy a new XRAY T2 car, and pimp it out with a Fantom 10T mod, a GTX speedo, an uber-fast servo, a set of the biggest, latest GP matched cells from a high quality matching company, send the motor out to be dyno tuned, get a tire truer, a few sets of foam tires, a decent body with adequate downforce, maybe a motor lathe, some traction compound, an M11 radio, and some extra sway bars, springs, shock oils, and some spare parts (Diffs, arms, rod ends, ect.....)

That's a huge wad of change! I think the hobby is getting the same amount of new people coming in as it always have, but their objective has changed. Just recently the cost of racing has seemed to jump a tad, but the newbie market remains the same. The newbies are looking to get into something they can drive anywhere without having to make repairs all the time. They don't want to race, because we've made even club racing so damn expensive. It's not a race of skill or wit, it's a race to the bank! Who wants to get a T2 racer that they can only drive at the racetrack on certain days? Who wants a car that they drive for a few heats 6 hours a week, then spend the rest of their time rebuilding and tweaking for the next race? It's all money, and people don't want to spend that.

The new JATO, REVO, and T-MAXX prove this theory. Racing is starting to suffer, but the sales from Duratrax, Tamiya, and Traxxas are growing. As long as the cost to build, maintain, and upgrade a racecar stays where it is there will be people out there asking themselves why the Hell they wanted to race in the first place? Nevermind the entrance fee....

Racer: "I just built this T2 racecar, and now I have to go pay $15 to race for 6 hours, possibly break something, and come in 2nd in the B-Main.... for what????? What the Hell do I get out of this? 6 hours of fun for $15, not including the price of parts and the initial cost of the equipment???!?!?!!?!? Forget this, I'm getting a stupid-proof monster truck that will last me a long time!"

Newbie: "Wow! Racing looks cool, but it's way to expensive. Mom, can I get a new T2 racecar?.....$500.....PLEASE!!!....Fine, what about a Rustler........It's only $200......... ThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYou!!!!!!"

Perfect rendition of the people who race......

One more question to ponder... sure, the Sensor is a nice radio, telemetry, cool, 6 volts rather than 12, nice, no crystals, sweet..... WHERE THE HELL DO THEY GET OFF SELLING THOSE THINGS FOR NEARLY $500?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? This is a perfect example. Looking at the prices of the competative stuff in the magazines and on store shelves is depressing, and the mentality at many racetracks is depressing. It seems that if you don't have a car that's worth X amount of dollars you're inferior. It's like you need to spend a million dollars just to be worth something...... That's why they hate it when I go to the track with my XXX-T MFE truck with a GT7, a 19T spec motor, some good hop-ups, and a set of 1.176V matched GP3300 packs and beat the fast guys with their Spektrums, M11's, Novak Velocities, and Reedy modifieds..... That's what we need. If some tracks would organize an RTR class with only stock motors and gearing things would get better. If you have a place for the normal people who don't want to unload their life savings to still be competative they will race. People don't want to go to the track with cheap equipment and get destroyed by the fast guys with the expensive stuff.
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:15 PM   #96
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Very interesting posts here. I agree with what most of you are saying. The thing that drives people away are the costs and frustration of breaking and having to feverishly try to repair your car to make your next heat. I am in my 40's and have been doing this for years and have never been one of the "fast" guys but I've beaten a whole lot of guys who are faster than I am. To me the most fun you can have in RC is racing, and I look forward to every race but how much fun is it to run one heat, break your car and spend the rest of the day working on it while others are out on the track? I try very hard to get my little toy car around the track as fast as I can WITHOUT hitting the boards or another car. Hitting things leads to broken cars, but so many of the people I have raced with are from the "run wide open until you hit something" school. I think if people would focus more on the fun they could have by racing all day long instead of only on "winning" they would stay in the hobby a lot longer.
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:31 PM   #97
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Good points in here... Just got done reading the whole thing...

I've been in the hobby since I was like 8 years old. I'm 24 now. I've been in and out of it and my father even owned a track in houston for 5 years.

I can make several observations and a couple of suggestions to what seems to have helped out/hurt clubs across the years.

1.The so called "hard core racers/ regional-level sponsored guys" - These are the people that don't spend hardly any money at the track and all they do is complain and intimidate the new guys- I know it I used to be one of those Pr**ks. These guys scare away all the paying customers and don't spend any money at the shop, therefore shutting the places down. No track = no racing.

2.The most succesful tracks are Clubs... Non- permanent tracks. They set up once a week or everyother week and keep the track time supply low. Therefore demand is high. The only problem is people get burnt out from setting it up and these things often lack consistency, therefore momentum of growth is easily lost. Help out your club coordinators!

3. Lots of different racing classes. 15 years ago you Ran either 2wd stock or 2wd mod. The Pro's ran MOD and the club racers ran STOCK, period. When you have 20 different racing classes, it is going to spread the racing very thin at each type/ category. On top of that you have all these pro guys running in the stock classes, and nobody else has a chace to win. How fun is it if you know you can't win the class you are in??? NO FUN! Therefore, no Pros in the stock classes.

4. Cars are WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY to fast. Fast has too many negatives for the beginner: It is hard to control, you break more parts, wear stuff quicker all which adds to the costs of racing. Slow the cars down and keep the fast guys out of the stock classes.

Which leads to:
5. Anyone w/ any kind of factory support should not race in stock. (That's what the sportmsan class is for- CRAP!- Sportsman should be for novices and regular/ 19 turn should be for advanced amateurs ) If you are a factory guy and can't be competitive in the modified Class YOU SHOULD NOT BE SPONSORED!- This is all the manuf. faults' though. Who remembers who wins the stock nats??? Who cares!

Take ownership at your club, when you see a new guy, invite them in, introduce yourself and help them out. Don't be secretive and always be inviting to more questions. Involve yourself in your club, because you are part of it- and the success of it depends on everyone who is a member, not just the owners/ promoters.

Finally, don't take it too seriously- this has got to be one of the wierdest and dorkiest hobbies in the world. We are all geeks in non r/c ers' eyes, really big ones. I don't think there is a single person that races R/C that is cooler because they race toy cars.

Just reviewing the post I came to a realization, hahaha basically slow the cars down, stop complaining, help more and (for the 10th time hahahaha!)KEEP THE PROS OUT OF THE STOCK CLASSES!!!
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:36 PM   #98
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Help with a zero thiry discharger.....

Hey guys-

I juts got a indi zero thirty discharger and I am wondering what is the differencr beytween this and my novak smart tray? I know the zero thiryt does it at higher amps, but you here some say to dishcarge down to .9volts, and some say all the way????

Thanks guys.....

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Old 06-07-2006, 09:44 PM   #99
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anyone there?????

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Old 06-07-2006, 10:21 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by SweetRacing
anyone there?????
You'd probably have better luck asking in the forum, rather than asking in a thread about a totally different subject...
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:26 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
You'd probably have better luck asking in the forum, rather than asking in a thread about a totally different subject...
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:08 PM   #102
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I'm new to the hobby, almost completely green as far as racing goes, heck I've really only been bashing for less than a year. Last thursday I went and checked out the local carpet track and there were 3 guys running. They gave me lots of very good advice and said to come back this wednesday (this evening) and check out the racing. I did this and everybody was really helpful which has made me very interested in joining in. It was obvious there were guys that were new and guys that had been racing for some time but they all raced together and were very friendly with each other.
I did ask a few questions and learnt a lot. It was a fun experience. I hope it stays like this and they made me feel very welcome and just seemed happy to possibly have another racer.
I'm not a grown man playing with toys. I'm a hobbyist.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:02 AM   #103
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r/c is cyclical in a few ways. 1) economical, mentioned before, people have money, they pick up a hobby. 2) classes, people get bored with the same stuff over and over so every couple of years the racers migrate to another class. 3) classes, in addition to point 2, there are just too many of them. on any given weekend i have 7 cars to prep just because of what the guys n gals want to run. this group wants me to run with them, these guys want action in another class. such and such class is made up of guys who can only make it twice a month.. etc.

about the stock motors.. if you're doing more than a cut, rebrush and spring tuning at the local level (weekly), you are spending too much time on it to have fun. spend that time trying different setups (ie stop relying on motor to make up for inadequacies, you'll be better off in the end). at an event with a bigger draw, yeah its time to give it a go. of course you could race 19T/Mod and have less to complain about
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:22 AM   #104
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Sweet racing: When the lights go dim the battery voltage is .9, the discharger will continue to discharge to zero volts (lights out) if you do not remove the batteries. And don't be so damned impatient, you gave everybody all of 8 minutes to respond. Thats why new racers get ignored. Too pushy. Want everything handed to them.

Hobby shops and Tracks don't promote and advertise beyond existing racers that already know about the hobby, how can the hobby grow? Promotion for novice racers should be priority #1 and should be advertised to within the local area within 20 miles of the track. If every single resident within a 20 mile radius dosen't know about the hobby, track, racing, a budget beginner class, then you still have advertising to do.

There shouldn't be a nationals for the stock class (that just attracts sponsored drivers), besides, the cost of travelling across the country for the nationals kinda goes against the purpose of the class. There shouldn't be a 19 turn class (its seperates the classes too much).

Novice should only be allowed sealed endbell stock motors.

Stock motors should have ball bearings and 12 degrees timing (just as fast, much less maintaince.

Stock class should use a spec tire.

Cars should have numbers, why did it become acceptable for race cars not to have numbers on them because of transponders? Being an announcer, I could announce a more exciting race if I could identify who's car is out there.
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:32 AM   #105
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Default reasons for people getting out of r/c

I've read a lot of the posts and have come to the following conclusion:

1) drivers from 10-15 quit because their parents won't sponsor them anymore, or they want to win now, now, now, and don't.
2) drivers from 16-24 quit because of girls (this hobby is 99% guys), school, sports, and they can't afford it (at this age, they are usually paying for their own stuff, no more team mom and dad)
3) drivers from 25-40 quit because of time constraints including babies, jobs, family, etc
4) drivers from 40 and up quit because they simply get tired of it. These are usually drivers who have been doing it for a long time. They might also quit because they used the hobby as time with their buddies. As their buddies quit, they quit.

All of these reasons come down to time, competition, and money, your time and your or someone else's money.

About 5 years ago, the local parking lot racing scene had at least 60 drivers show up every sunday. Then more tracks opened, an indoor track opened, and people left the hobby. Today, we are lucky to get 25 drivers on a sunday. Even though the entry level cars have remained the same price, the pure racing cars have gone up considerably. Plus, many of the local racers have increased their spending (new cars, new hopups, new batteries, etc) and this seemed to cause everyone else to increase their spending. Those that didn't increase their spending slid down in their finishes, or quit.

If you want to draw more people, I would do the following:
1) have a true spec class and encourage it: pick a chassis (mini, tt01, tl01, etc), only allow silver can motors (handed out and collected each week,) and only allow inexpensive stick packs (charged by the race director,) you can use hobbico peak chargers that sell for $30 and wholesale for $20. (10 chargers for 10 batteries=$200 10 batteries x $15 = $150, total is $350 for a true spec class setup, charge these racers an addition $5 and you will pay for the setup in 5 or 6 weeks) I would also limit the hopups to ball bearings. (no oil shocks, no non kit tires, no traction compound.) This would remove the hop ups, motors, and batteries and would only leave driving skill.
2) designate a racer to help the newbie's each week.
3) offer driving clinics and setup clinics during breaks in the racing
4) charge a max of $10 to race (I don't think the majority of shops make money on racing fees anyway)
5) if a racer is lapping the field, handicap that racer (like drag racing), don't count their first lap and make them wait 10 seconds at the start of the race

Last edited by billjacobs; 06-08-2006 at 10:06 AM.
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