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Old 06-11-2006, 07:18 PM   #151
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I agree with Tsquare, you have my vote... I would need to see your race run, but you have my feelings aobut these sprint races... The batteries have increased, so should the main event. Everyone complains about the speed, this is good way to fix that... Run longer races, and you will have cut back on the speed to make it to the end... I have watch many videos of the "good old days" when dumping in the last minuite of the race was common. Bring it back... Learn to work our setup to make it to the end....

Think about this, if R/C racing started today, it would not have a limit of 5mins on the run.. This was the answer 10 years ago when batteries could not last 5min, or it was the limit....
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:42 PM   #152
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Just my 0.02 worth. I left the hobby 3 years ago due to time, with being a full time student, working and attending or trying to attend local R/C events it was hard. Modding real cars and racing RC's is still a passion of mine now that I'm done with school and done modding my car haha I can get back into the scene. I use to race with a group of good guys and it was about a group of 9 of us that would attend events together. 5 of them had families and the others were college students just like me. In the end it came down to time. It was never about $$ cause R/C can be expensive but it's all about being smart with it.
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:58 PM   #153
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Have not read much of this thread but i must say i did not find the "good ol days" all that good. I dont miss the days of racing pan cars and dumping with a stock motor! I dont miss having to gear my car to make run time while the guys with the best of the best matched packs would dominate. Its simply not that way today. I can honestly say i run with 50$ packs and win against the 90$ packs. But regardless of how well or not so well i do on the track. I get to gear the car for the track and not for run time. Its now a matter of finding the sweat spot for that stock or 19T motor and forget about run time. You add 2 or 3 minutes of race time and we step back 5-10 years and guys on the budgets will feel the "good ol days" like i did when i started racing....

To answer the topic question:
-quit cuz they dont win
-quit cuz they spent too much money and did not win
-quit cuz they where not having fun cuz they did not win
-quit cuz of family(growing family)
-quit cuz of lack of spare time
-quit cuz they went to school
-quit cuz they think because brand xyz produces a new kit every 6months that they must have it.(even though they never can prove they went faster)
-quit cuz they got caught up on club politics and forgot why they where racing in the first place(to have fun)


You cant force people to race, the class structure or rules is not to blame. People just get out cuz they lost sight of why they got into it..... TO HAVE FUN! I dont care what the excuse most of the time a guy that quits stopped having fun. Too many people take racing seriously. I find it so funny to watch guys at the club lever loose there mind at the track... As if they where racing to pay there f'n morgage or something... Racing is only as expencive as you let it be, you dont have to keep spending to have fun racing.... In fact i have seen some pretty low budget a-main winners in the past. IF you got skills you got skills..

I dont buy most of the reasons people get out of racing other then the real ones like family or work/school related. ITs amazing how a new girlfriend,wife or kids can put racing away for good.
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Last edited by Joel Lagace; 06-11-2006 at 08:00 PM. Reason: more
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:31 PM   #154
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Ok so i read more and ill have to agree that some sort of spec racing is good,and needed. We used to race TL01 at our club and it was a great for about 4-5 years, but its main down fall was drivers staying in the class to long and then dominating... The other 2 things that killed it as the constant requests to change rules to allow different tires and hopups as well as tamiyas running changes to the chassis, forces rule changes. IT was great for newbies but as they got more experneced there was more reading between the lines of the the rule books and it started to be a real head ache as teching was manditory... The other killer was the cars them selve sucked and where useless for stock and mod sedan racing, so there was no easy move up to the regular classes.... So TL01 pro had to dishout 400-600 getting setup for regular sedan classes.

Section 3: "Spec TL-01" Class Rules

The NCMA "SPEC TL-01" class rules are meant to provide fair and close door-to-door racing on a very reasonable budget for both the rookie and the experienced racer.

Section 3.1: Chassis

Only basic-model Tamiya TL-01 on-road car kit can be used. Kits that differ from the basic models (kits including any hop-up parts, such as ball bearings) may not be used unless they're cleared by tech inspection. The cars must be raced as they come out of the box, without any gear ratio changes, hop-ups or modifications (milling, drilling), other than those outlined in section 3.2 below. Repairs must be done with original parts only. Minimum ground clearance including body: 5mm. No weight limit.

Section 3.2: Modifications allowed

a) The mechanical speed controller may be replaced with any electronic speed controller.
b) Two bronze bushings may be used on the spur gear shaft (1st shaft after the motor pinion).
c) The motor pinion may be replaced by Robinson Racing p/n RRP-1119 (Metric 48P, 19T).
d) A hole may be drilled under the tub to allow easy access to the servo saver (max dia: 10mm).
e) The lightweight frame may be used since it comes with many kits.
f) Tamiya adjustable turnbuckles for front and rear camber links. Allowable Tamiya parts: # 53303 adjustable upper arm set or #53192 turnbuckle upper arm (4wd/fwd).
g) Tamiya TL-01 adjustable tie rods. Allowable part is: #53300.
h) The standard servo saver may be replaced with any ROAR approved servo saver. This change will probably also require the change is sub section g. - Tamiya TL-01 adjustable tie rods.
i) A foam bumper may be installed on the front and rear. This may be foam added to the existing bumper or a complete foam bumper replacement. The addition of the foam bumper may not change any of the standard characteristics of the chassis or body such as aerodynamics, width or length.
Section 3.3: Electric and electronic issues

The motor must be the kit-supplied “540 silver can” (Mabuchi or Johnson). Any ROAR approved 6 sub-C cells with a rated capacity of 2400mAh or less. Any speed controller and connector type may be used.

Section 3.4: Tires, wheels, and inserts

Only the "Racing Slick Tires" (p/n: 50454) or the "Racing Radial Tires" (p/n: 50419) can be used. Aftermarket wheels can be used if they have the same diameter, width (26mm), and offset as standard Tamiya wheels. No tire inserts may be used.

Section 3.5: Body and wing

Any 1/10 scale enclosed wheel body type vehicle. Examples of bodies that would not be legal: Buggy, F1, off-road truck, etc. It must be painted and decorated. The windows must be clear without paint or tinting. Only the supplied wing may be used, no oversized wings. The transponder must be mounted in the lower right corner of the windshield (passenger side).


Our most current form or spec racing(TL01 has been gone for 2 years now) is 4 cell stock sedan. The best thing here is they are so slow that a tl01 can run against a xray and do well. The traction to power ratio is so high that its all about racing lines, again the better cars should and will do better but for new guys its all about driving without breaking... And gone is the issues we had with spec TL01: No longer are we teching like we race formula one. Any chassis and any hopup is allowed. WE run typical 5mm with min weight restrictions.... The rest is stock roar motors and rubber or foam tires. To move up or run a second class is easy as most will buy the sedan they really want from day one the one they can afford be it a TL01 or a FK06....


PS i love the miniT story its so true.
PSS I also have to agree with the age bracket senerio, very true.
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Old 06-13-2006, 08:41 AM   #155
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Thanks for the ROAR vote (unless you're being sarcastic). I wouldn't wish that job on anyone. Everytime someone has been president and tried something new the manufacturers put their desires on the front page. More or less handcuffing who's in the seat at ROAR or NORRCA. Hell, even Tamiya has been bending it's rules about their track etc. to accomodate what's the "in trend" in racing. It's been a while since we've seen innovation in the racing format. In fact the last big change was going from 4 minutes to 5 minutes... That's almost 10 years ago.

That's it. That's the list. The rest has been driven by what manufacturers have put out and the international sanctioning body IFMAR.

Only the clubs who are independent of track owners, who have their own means, are creating new challenges for r/c drivers.

Good racing till next time.

bp
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:04 AM   #156
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I also left the hobby because of the amount of money that it takes to be competitive. For a 16 year old, it is impossible to race, buy a car, and pay for insurance at the same time. After paying insurance, very little money is left to fund a r/c car. When I entered the hobby, the tc3 was the car to have, and racing was still relatively cheap. Today, every decent tc costs over $400. If an alternative racing class was created that fit a limited budget, I would come back to the hobby in a heartbeat.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:37 PM   #157
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Cost way too much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Thats why.
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:16 AM   #158
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Remember its not all just about cost,or how far people drive to race but it is their mentality.

If you don't enjoy the hobby you leave it.

So thats why its important new racers should have the desire to learn about this hobby. If theres no desire to learn then theres no desire to keep at it.

All it takes is 1 or 2 major accidents for the newbie to walk away,never to be seen at a track again.

Just think how gutted you would be to drive your first ever new car and take it off the track in many pieces. Its pretty cruel when you think of the inital outlay in cost (and time building it if you had to).

Its all about time,money,mentality/your personal life. Without 1 of them your chances of staying in racing deteriorate pretty quickly.
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:22 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slcf1
Thanks for the ROAR vote (unless you're being sarcastic). I wouldn't wish that job on anyone. Everytime someone has been president and tried something new the manufacturers put their desires on the front page. More or less handcuffing who's in the seat at ROAR or NORRCA. Hell, even Tamiya has been bending it's rules about their track etc. to accomodate what's the "in trend" in racing. It's been a while since we've seen innovation in the racing format. In fact the last big change was going from 4 minutes to 5 minutes... That's almost 10 years ago.

That's it. That's the list. The rest has been driven by what manufacturers have put out and the international sanctioning body IFMAR.

Only the clubs who are independent of track owners, who have their own means, are creating new challenges for r/c drivers.

Good racing till next time.

bp
I for one as not being sarcastic... Just so you know....
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:47 AM   #160
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RTR Mentality:

Sure, RTR "gets more people into the hobby"... but it results in most of the new blood coming into the hobby being uninformed and incapable of doing a good portion of what we consider "this hobby" including building and maintaining their car, making changes to the car that effect its performance...etc...

If something is not working the way you want it and you are unable to fix it with the skills that you have...it seems like most people now will just shrug their shoulders and move on to something else... and I think that's what we have here...

But on the other hand if you can make a change to your car, and afterwards actually see the change, it gives you motivation... it makes you feel like you accomplished something and makes you want to try more

Sure, the industry is "picking up new customers"...but it seems like it's picking up and fostering the wrong kind of customer.

The Hobby thrives on the "come back"... on the customer coming back to the hobby shop to buy spare parts, hop up parts, maintenance parts... if you throw the tuning/support side of the hobby out... all you have left is the impulse buy... and this industry doesn't have the public exposure to simply survive on this kind of "one time" customer.

I know there are some people who start out with RTR, upgrade their cars, and genuinely imerse themselves into the hobby...but I believe that these are the minority of the RTR customers.

I'm not saying RTR is entirely bad or anything... I just think that the mentality that it and the industry are fostering are not good for the industry's long term health...
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:49 AM   #161
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Quote:
time,money,mentality/your personal life
Thats a lot to ask from someone. I understand its a hobby but regardless a good hobby should have some retention characteristic. I mean sure some times your busy and cant keep up, but a good hobby should be one that you go back to when you have time. A good hobby is one which you would want to save up for and invest in. A good hobby is one which can help you relax from your every day stressful life. People are leaving this hobby flat out without looking back.

A good question to ask is why are the people not coming back.

There are also other factors to this. I mean there are other forms of entertainment/hobbies that are competing with with the RC hobby. One source of competition is computer gaming, the majority of players are in the 18-30's demographic. They probably dont have alot of time or money, yet they manage to game on. Why is it that the video game industry is booming while the rc industry is stagnant. Cost cannot be a great factor since people are laying down hundreds of dollars for games and consoles. Time is neither a factor too.

The bottom line is why dont people have the mentality to persist with the RC hobby? Why value (not monetary) does this hobby bring to them as opposed to other hobbies?

So to sum up my view
-cost and time is not an inhibiting factor
-people are leaving the hobby because hobby doesnt have retainning value
-there are other hobbies competiting for the same market share

My 2 cent
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:03 AM   #162
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Hello All

Very interesting thread this, we're not quite seeing the same thing as you appear to be as the UK racing scene has been fairly static in overall racing numbers over the last couple of years. But we are seeing a bit of a reduction in the Touring Car area and an increase in just about every other class.
It's especially noticeable in people moving from TC's to 1/10 Off Road, 1/8 Off road, and even 1/8 & 1/12 circuit's had a boost - perhaps this is a cost issue or possibly the older classes arn't quite so serious or the drivers have been doing TC's for a few years and looking for something new.
(By the Way - REALLY like the idea of the Salt Lake city club, that's very cool indeed. Club racing is the lifeblood of the sport, after all that's where the new classes come from - so i'll be suggesting that to somebody over here..)

But the reason for the post.

Where we are seeing an odd pattern emerging is the age of the drivers, either everybody's turning grey a bit younger these days or the average age is increasing quite quick

We are finding that getting youngsters into the sport is harder and harder to achieve, and not because of cost either, mainly due to an attitude where competetion is seen as being a bit old fashioned? Certainly it seems to be a case of either:-
I'm not going to do that because i'll have to compete against other people..
Or
If I'm going to do that I'll have to win or not do it..

So we're seeing an increase in young backyard drivers, a reduction in young racers, and an increase in the 'Must Win' attitude, just wondering if you're seeing the same thing or is this just a odd trait we have over here.

Jim
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:24 AM   #163
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I have been trying to race for years and years in upper illinois. I have the turbo 35, the 3800.s and the newest xray but the big problem is where to race and when. it is frustrating to want to race but it takes a 45 minute drive to an hour and a half to get there then there is the endless waiting for things to start, and the delays and, and, and. a new track outside started up in crystal lake in front of the new hobbytown and they are good people but unorganized so the races never start on time, like 2 hours after they were supposed to, and they run slowly so a four hour race day turns into a sunday when you get home at 9:30 at night it is too much waisted time and not enough fun for the money all these hobby stores are selling the products for money but have no where to play with them. just like owning an ATV in illinois
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:26 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomTask
Thats a lot to ask from someone. I understand its a hobby but regardless a good hobby should have some retention characteristic. I mean sure some times your busy and cant keep up, but a good hobby should be one that you go back to when you have time. A good hobby is one which you would want to save up for and invest in. A good hobby is one which can help you relax from your every day stressful life. People are leaving this hobby flat out without looking back.

A good question to ask is why are the people not coming back.

There are also other factors to this. I mean there are other forms of entertainment/hobbies that are competing with with the RC hobby. One source of competition is computer gaming, the majority of players are in the 18-30's demographic. They probably dont have alot of time or money, yet they manage to game on. Why is it that the video game industry is booming while the rc industry is stagnant. Cost cannot be a great factor since people are laying down hundreds of dollars for games and consoles. Time is neither a factor too.

The bottom line is why dont people have the mentality to persist with the RC hobby? Why value (not monetary) does this hobby bring to them as opposed to other hobbies?

So to sum up my view
-cost and time is not an inhibiting factor
-people are leaving the hobby because hobby doesnt have retainning value
-there are other hobbies competiting for the same market share

My 2 cent
I totally agree,it is a lot to ask from someone. I think some people dont realise the time needed to race and maintain a car,more so for serious racing.

Everyone wants to be winning races and to do well at any hobby you need practice.

But cost and time are a factor if you want to do well.

For a very crude example on the time issue,Micheal Shumacher,Ayrton Senna etc didnt win races as soon as they sat in a car. They had to practice and learn like the rest.

As for cost,you're right- rc racing is pretty expensive when you add up the cost of everything,compared to something like tennis or cricket for example.
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:53 AM   #165
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I'm sure these have been mentioned, but I'll say them again. If they havn't, they need to be.

1) General apathy of track owners to promote their own facilities and r/c in general to the public.

2) Refusal, or at least a lack of interest, from hobby store owners to promote local racing.

3) Super repetative, unfulfilling, ho-hum club racing.

As a former track owner, I can say these things with confidence. Mind you, the remedies for these problems are free, for the most part, and can be as simple as a change in attitude and some foresite.
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