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Old 05-26-2006, 07:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by quantum
i guess i can understand why you would make that choice...i hope you can understand why a racer like myself would be disappointed with that choice.

especially when they were almost traction rolling last year at iic with the CS27 (is more traction really whats needed?)

on another note, thanks for all this great tire info! i think its a first from anyone!
This may sound a little crazy but sometimes stickier tires make you car traction roll less. If the tires slide then grip you can traction roll. If a stickier tire grips consistently and doesn't slide you will traction roll less.

Everyone we talked to after the IIC was complaining of a lack of traction in the rubber class. Not enough forward bite to put the power down and not enough side bite to throw the car hard into the corners. Some said it was like driving drift cars...lol!

Paul Wynn finished 5th in the Mod Rubber A-Main. He was running a one way, 17 lb front springs and 14 lb rear springs, 1.2mm sway bars, and 40wt oil front and rear with quite a bit of droop on his Schumacher Mi2 and he was nowhere near traction rolling.

This is basically an asphalt setup with a one way added. May guys new to rubber carpet racing were running harder springs thinking that they were necessary for rubber carpet. That is not at all true and often causes traction rolling. No driver in the Mod A-Main ran a spring stiffer than 19lb and some were running 12.9lb springs front an rear.

I don't mean to knock you our your car but if you were traction rolling your setup was way off.
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Old 05-26-2006, 11:08 AM   #17
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So like, where's the best site to buy a set of cs27 premounts?
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Old 05-26-2006, 11:57 AM   #18
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So like, where's the best site to buy a set of cs27 premounts?

Check out Full Throttle.

http://www.teamfullthrottle.net/index.htm
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Old 05-26-2006, 11:59 AM   #19
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www.speedtechrc.com
www.sheldonshobbies.com
www.racing-cars.com

If you Google Take Off CS27 you will see lots of on line stores.
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
This may sound a little crazy but sometimes stickier tires make you car traction roll less. If the tires slide then grip you can traction roll. If a stickier tire grips consistently and doesn't slide you will traction roll less.

Everyone we talked to after the IIC was complaining of a lack of traction in the rubber class. Not enough forward bite to put the power down and not enough side bite to throw the car hard into the corners. Some said it was like driving drift cars...lol!

Paul Wynn finished 5th in the Mod Rubber A-Main. He was running a one way, 17 lb front springs and 14 lb rear springs, 1.2mm sway bars, and 40wt oil front and rear with quite a bit of droop on his Schumacher Mi2 and he was nowhere near traction rolling.

This is basically an asphalt setup with a one way added. May guys new to rubber carpet racing were running harder springs thinking that they were necessary for rubber carpet. That is not at all true and often causes traction rolling. No driver in the Mod A-Main ran a spring stiffer than 19lb and some were running 12.9lb springs front an rear.

I don't mean to knock you our your car but if you were traction rolling your setup was way off.

no offense taken. i race only rubber touring since '99, not exactly new to rubber, but no expert either! perhaps "disappointed" was not the right word. please let me clarify that it is in no way directed at your rationale, it is my resignation to the fact that i will have to spend a lot more money.

though i did not race at the iic last year, i spoke with martin crisp (who won the 19t a-main rubber class, and placed 4th in mod rubber a-main) and it was he who reported high traction. from my experience, his setups are pretty reliable. i certainly appreciate the feedback you have received from paul and do not discount it.

i have participated in other "big" ozite carpet races using different types of control tires and the ones where the tire is only good for a couple runs end up costing the drivers the most. when the cs27 has been the tire used it was great because, as you have mentioned, it is a long wearing, consistent tire. martin was able to find very high grip with it and achieve excellent results. from my own experience, achieving the right balance in setup (that you have described) is important to achieve between too stiff a setup that causes the tires to dig and cause roll, and too soft that you lose corner speed, or roll. the cs27 tire has been better than the cs22 in this scenario (but the traction compound being used plays a significant role as well).

all said, i've only used the rp tire once, and you have more experience than i do - i don't oppose your recommendation, but defer to your expertise. (i do plan to be at the iic this year and i just hope i do not end up having to buy one set of tires for every run!)
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:57 PM   #21
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The RP24 or 30's should yield at least 2-3 fast mod runs on carpet before falling off lap time wise. After that the car will get too stuck and slow down a little. The same think happens with Sorex and Pit tires.
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Old 05-26-2006, 02:41 PM   #22
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A freind mention to me that the takeoff rim are not molded true on the preglues because they changed the plastic the rims are made out of.
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Old 05-26-2006, 02:56 PM   #23
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At our request Take Off changes the rim material from ABS to High Impact Nylon. The new rim is made from a new mold that was resized to take into account the greater shrinkage of nylon while cooling. We have measured the new rims and dimensionally they are identical to the old ABS rim. The are just as round and straight as the old rim.

We had the material changed due to complaints of ABS rims cracking during crashes. You can beat the new rims with a hammer and they wont break.

The nylon rims are also 1-2/10ths per lap faster than the old rims
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Old 05-26-2006, 03:23 PM   #24
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doh! got it wrong he said they were to soft now and making the tyres over heat; note we're in the uk. So using cs -22 is normally what we run as it is quite mild here for the summer.
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Old 05-26-2006, 04:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoking motor..
doh! got it wrong he said they were to soft now and making the tyres over heat; note we're in the uk. So using cs -22 is normally what we run as it is quite mild here for the summer.
Thats quite possible. 22's are pretty easy to overheat. In Florida during the winter we use 27's and a more agressive traction compound instead of 22's. We only run 22's on cool nights or when it really cold.

You might want to try 27's and a more harsh traction compound than Tire Tweak.
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Old 05-26-2006, 04:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Thats quite possible. 22's are pretty easy to overheat. In Florida during the winter we use 27's and a more agressive traction compound instead of 22's. We only run 22's on cool nights or when it really cold.

You might want to try 27's and a more harsh traction compound than Tire Tweak.
27s are half a second slower than 22s round here and additives like the ones from paragon or corally TC3 aren't allowed even outdoors. Remember a hot day here is 25C, most of the top drivers were using CS22s last year (not preglued though) in any conditions they were the best. Problem with 22s is you only get 2 very good runs, then a 3rd decent run and then they're poo. The older they get the looser the rear end of the car aswell.
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Old 05-26-2006, 07:05 PM   #27
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just out of curiosity, does the new rim material stay glued any better? it seems like some of the cs-27's come unglued fairly easily
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Old 05-26-2006, 07:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeunit1014
just out of curiosity, does the new rim material stay glued any better? it seems like some of the cs-27's come unglued fairly easily
Generally if there is a problem is not ungluing but rather incomplete penetration of the glue (only a bit oif the outside edge gets glued). When you run a tires like that it can come apart. If you tug on the side walls of the tire before running it you will discover any problem 100% of the time and be able to fix it with a drop of glue.

I only check tires at really big race like Nationals and the Reedy Race. At club races I don't bother and in 4 years of running premounts I have only had 2 bad glue jobs.

As to the new rims...there is no diffrnece in the gluing. Over all Take Off does a really good job seeing as an average tire order for Schumacher USA is ~3000 4pks of tires (Thats 12,000 tires or 24,000 applications of glue). Given the numbers of tires coming in (huge) and the frequency of gluing issues (fairly rare) I think thay are doing a great job.

I used to see a lot more blowout when people glued thier own tires.
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Old 05-26-2006, 10:38 PM   #29
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man Adrian, you've been a great help. Thank you.
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Old 05-26-2006, 11:30 PM   #30
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Nice posts Adrian. Very interesting string with your input.

Thanks.

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