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Old 05-09-2006, 10:09 AM   #31
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I disagree that the mere 1000 rpm will not matter in on road racing. especially if you have your set up and a free drive train. unfortunately I also race 4 cell oval. and that 1000 rpms will make a difference of .1 to .5 seconds per lap at a minimum. For intsance, last weekend i used to identical stock motors tuned by brood, one is 1000 rpm faster, with the slower one I am about 4th after lap 1, with the faster motor I was up the the front after 1 lap. All thing equal in on road it will probably make that much difference also.

and yes I will get one. I can use another 500 to 1000 rpm!! nice ploy by trinity to make more motor sales.

What is next, maybe trinity make make a tweakable 19turn fixed endbell. not for the racers of course, it's for all of us bashers.
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Old 05-09-2006, 10:55 AM   #32
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If you can notice a 1000rpm difference in your stock motors then you should be running Mod at a national level because you really are that good.
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Old 05-09-2006, 10:58 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nagatahawk
I disagree that the mere 1000 rpm will not matter in on road racing. especially if you have your set up and a free drive train. unfortunately I also race 4 cell oval. and that 1000 rpms will make a difference of .1 to .5 seconds per lap at a minimum. For intsance, last weekend i used to identical stock motors tuned by brood, one is 1000 rpm faster, with the slower one I am about 4th after lap 1, with the faster motor I was up the the front after 1 lap. All thing equal in on road it will probably make that much difference also.

and yes I will get one. I can use another 500 to 1000 rpm!! nice ploy by trinity to make more motor sales.

What is next, maybe trinity make make a tweakable 19turn fixed endbell. not for the racers of course, it's for all of us bashers.
It all depends on gearing. If you put in a motor that has 1000 more RPM then it will have less torque than the previous motor requiring you to go down in gear ratio...If you leave the same gear on both motors your going to overgear one OR undergear the other.

Ive been racing a LONG time and I can tell you that there is NO WAY that 1000 RPM is going to make a .5 second difference in lap times much less any difference at all!!

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Old 05-09-2006, 11:29 AM   #34
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EA,
this new motor is kinda confusing me.
Typically there is a tradeoff for high rpm which is low torque.

On a Robi dyno I typically see
ROAR stock
RPM 26000+ TQ-70+
Monster
RPM 25000+ TQ-78+
CO27
RPM 24000+ TQ-88+

I wonder where this motor will fall ?
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Old 05-09-2006, 12:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM03GT
sigh* nagatahawk hit it on the head... this XX will basically force club racers into buying these to keep up... whats next? is it now ok to hodge podge your own stock motor as long as its a 27T arm?

as for the bushings versus bearings argument for cost... go ANYWHERE and try to buy a ball bearing for the price of a bushing... unless there is an unbelievable sale on the bearings the bushings will be substantially cheaper everytime. period.
It's not really any worse than before - there have been cheaters popping out their bushings and dropping in bearings for years.

I honestly don't think that's a great idea for a racer. You will get busted eventually and it's not going to look good on you. IMO you are way better off practicing and tuning with a legal motor so that you know how to make them fast.

For everyone else that just wants a stock motor and lower maintenance, the XX is a great option. For racers, stick with the X.
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Old 05-09-2006, 12:30 PM   #36
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having a production non-spec motor of this type just makes it that much easier and makes it seem that much more "ok" to do it...

and i agree with you, i run spec everything down to weight and body/wing size spec so that my club racing car performs the exact same at races where rules are enforced...
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Old 05-09-2006, 01:47 PM   #37
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ok you guys are killing me.
I admit I am not a national driver, but I am consistantly mediorcer. lol.
meet me at Hot Rod Hobbies first sunday of june, bring both motors and we will go around the oval, you dont have to be a national driver to get consistant times, and further more we can to to tamiya hq test tract on any saturday. and even I can get consitant times around the track, the layout is the same 24/7 except when they run reverse direction. I'll bet you ah er let me rephrase, I believe that 1000 rpm will make a difference in lap times. some of you will be there for the reedy and you can see for yourself it is not difficult to be consistant there. although being fast there is another story.

ok I'm done. I promise i will not post up again.
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Old 05-09-2006, 05:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nagatahawk
The accessablity of the xx is a very sad story. Thanks to trinity, cheater motors are available to everyone. ...
if you're going to throw mud, at least do it on everyone responsible and not just trinity.

most tuners out there wind 'cheater' 19t's that are handwound and stick them in a locked 24' can that otherwise appear roar compliant. some tuners rebalance stock arms, again 'cheating' (was as of last year anyway). heck, even the new checkpoint 19t is wound 'cheatingly' argueably to gain a performance advantage.

i fundamentally agree that the availability of stylistically similar, but better performing and 'cheater' motors makes it tougher to enforce. but if you're going to blame someone, you cannot fairly call-out just one entity.

for the non-US readers of this forum, my definition of 'cheating' was non-roar compliant, in the spirit of the thread

p.s. - forseeing the 'our club allows hand wound 19t fixed timing motors' arguement, i'm sure some clubs will allow the xx motors as well.
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Old 05-09-2006, 09:37 PM   #39
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Motors should be matched to track layout. Maybe this new motor will merge the gap between the current CO27, and the Monster. If the X can keep the torque of the CO27, but gain some RPM's in the process it will become the prefered motor of choice IMO. Let's wait and see.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:25 PM   #40
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Bearings: http://rc4less.safeshopper.com/22/420.htm?32
3 bucks for a pair that's some serious cost
For 10 bucks you can get a pair of ceramic: http://rc4less.safeshopper.com/22/421.htm?32 now that will last at least 2-3 motors...
So there is really no point to stick to bushings just to save money...

There are two roar approved 19T motors out there - Komodo and C2:
http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/smotor.php
Checkpoint, Atlas, Orion... all of these are "cheater" motors in the first place...
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Old 07-12-2006, 06:15 PM   #41
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Can someone confirm if the armatures are different to the Epic Roar? I was told that it just a recolored motor can and that its is a Roar motor.
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Old 07-12-2006, 06:36 PM   #42
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my god, the komodo dragon is so far from legal its unreal, only reason it made the roar list is cos trinity all well in with roar, its shocking!!!
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danjoy25
Can someone confirm if the armatures are different to the Epic Roar? I was told that it just a recolored motor can and that its is a Roar motor.
Yes the armature is different and the can is slightly different. Who ever told you that has never looked at one or is blind in one eye and cant see out the other

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Old 07-12-2006, 08:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danjoy25
Can someone confirm if the armatures are different to the Epic Roar? I was told that it just a recolored motor can and that its is a Roar motor.

The Epic Roar stock arm has 36 laminations total between the 2 stacks

The X stock has 40 like the Co27 and the Monster.

I havent had the chance to see an X stock up close yet, am curious to see how they got all the RPM out of a 40 lam stack.

Has anyone measured the stacks total length? Is it smaller like the Roar stock was ?
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:21 PM   #45
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I have a friend who purchased some X Stocks from a leading tuner, the supplied Dyno info showed no more RPM than a CO27. I guess the track will tell the story though
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