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Old 05-04-2006, 08:18 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by SPC
I am not trying to start a confrontational debate or distract from the original intent of this forum. However I must ask, why do you and many others believe that lipo cells will eliminate cell matching and the battery wars in general? Do you believe that all lipo cells are and will be created equal? They do have several promising characteristics that will greatly improve the RC hobby in general, but they are not the final "holy grail" that many believe them to be. There will still be some sort of cell matching and possibly cell enhancing. There will still be the competitive push by manufacturers to deliver the latest and greatest, thus making previous cells appear obsolete. Competition and technology will march on regardless of the cell type or material.
Exactly! This is no different than the whole "We'll never dump 3800's" stuff we heard from people not too long ago. Believe me, if there's one thing we as racers WILL do, it's learn tricks to enhance the performance of EVERY piece of equipment we own. Li-po packs keep getting better and better. Go to your local shop and talk with the electric plane guys, they can tell you how rapidly li-po tech has progressed and how much better the cells get with each revision. If you wanna be competitive, you'll be buying the new gen li-po's each time they appear, just like you do with Nimh's.
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Old 05-04-2006, 08:25 AM   #17
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I am of the opinion that when it goes totally lipo and brushless I am probably gonna be done. I think part of the fun is working on the motors to see how much more you can get out of it. The battery thing is just going to kill a lot of little company matchers if that is all they do and the motor tuners will be in the same boat as the battery guys. Everyone seems to be after longer races but look how long it takes to run big races now and we only do 5 minutes in 1/10 and 8 in 1/12. You will have to limit the number of people to races to an even lower level then now just so you can get everyone through and out at a decent time. I understand keeping the cost down and all but I just believe it will put a lot of people out of business then you are right back to where you were buyin from the big boys who can afford to stay in it. I guess I will have to wait this out and see how it goes.
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Old 05-04-2006, 08:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by LasagnaCat
Going out on a limb... I'd like to see lipo cells embraced and sanctioned and not have to deal with battery matchers. May be the death knell for independant matchers, but it could be a giant leap forward for the hobby. Longer races possible (when combined with brushless) as well as lower maintenance.. club racers would in theory have the same packs that factory drivers had, or at least comparable packs. No having to replace them on a constant basis.. no having to take the extra dischargers/trays/etc. to the track... being able to go with one or two packs TOTAL instead of a case full of heavy nimh packs.. no having to wade through multiple voltage levels and price points for nimh matchers, or having to hear about how everyone has their own revoultionary zapping/matching process.. blech. Level the playing field with motors and batteries and you stress what's left - setup skills and driving ability.
This post pretty much sums it up.
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Old 05-04-2006, 09:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LasagnaCat
Going out on a limb... I'd like to see lipo cells embraced and sanctioned and not have to deal with battery matchers. May be the death knell for independant matchers, but it could be a giant leap forward for the hobby. Longer races possible (when combined with brushless) as well as lower maintenance.. club racers would in theory have the same packs that factory drivers had, or at least comparable packs. No having to replace them on a constant basis.. no having to take the extra dischargers/trays/etc. to the track... being able to go with one or two packs TOTAL instead of a case full of heavy nimh packs.. no having to wade through multiple voltage levels and price points for nimh matchers, or having to hear about how everyone has their own revoultionary zapping/matching process.. blech. Level the playing field with motors and batteries and you stress what's left - setup skills and driving ability.
Hal - le - lu - ya, This statement is concise and to the point, lets get back to driving skills!
The rest of the stuff is costly and distracts from the racing. I can't tell you how many dischargers and equalising trays I have purchased for different types of cells in the last two years, the junk just keeps piling up in my garage. As far as I am concerned, batteries are the equivelent of gas in the full size auto racing , lets all use the same gas and get on with with the driving.

Brushless motors right now offer RC racing an opportunity to level the playing field hear too. By ranking motors by watts, (and as far as I know you cannot tweak a brushless motor - yet). And when the day comes that some smart competitor figures out how to tweak a brushless motor - thats ok - you cannot stop people from wanting to go faster, but why not see how this new system may work, we can always go back to what we have now.

Lastly, It seems that the the dog is always chasing it's tail. The RC racers are the dog and the battery and motor manufacturers are the tail. They keep on throwing out product and we keep chaseing in vein, they keep getting our money every week, every month, every year and we just keep on chasing. My sense is things could be better, there are many people who have a vested interest in what we race, the product manufacturers might have the most at stake. The change from Sub-C to Lipo and Brushed to brushless will be fought by some manufacturers, I am focusing on my interest as a racer and on how we race and the growth of the sport. I want to stop having to buy batteries and motors that I know are not competitive when compared to the racers who have an in with the manufaturers. Period! IMHO.
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Old 05-04-2006, 09:50 AM   #20
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At the risk of starting a "spec classes go nowhere" discussion again - one of the possible solutions is an in line (between pack and ESC) voltage regulator built to strict standards to equalize the "fuel supply".

The recent popularity of 4300 Novak Brushless in the midwest as a competitive oval class is a step in the right direction.

We're seeing 100 car fields again for the first time in years. Maybe we're beginning to get the message.
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Old 05-04-2006, 10:30 AM   #21
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This statement is concise and to the point, lets get back to driving skills!
I'm not trying to choose which side of this deadhorse to beat, but anyone that thinks that battery numbers play a larger role than driving skills with todays sub-c packs is wrong. Its a poor excuse normally complimenting a poor performance. And one I hear all too often.
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:02 PM   #22
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They guys that are complaining about having to work on and tune brushed motors are going to be complaining about having to work on and tune teir chassis when we all switch to brushless.
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:09 PM   #23
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It's un-American to not complain. It's written into the declaration of independence. "life, liberty and the persuit of something to bitch about"
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:18 PM   #24
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HI GUYS LETS TRY TO ANSWER MY ORIGANAL ? PLEASE
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Smash
They guys that are complaining about having to work on and tune brushed motors are going to be complaining about having to work on and tune teir chassis when we all switch to brushless.
I respect people who like to work on their cars, that why we have pit crews. My feeling is the batteries we have today are a complete waste of time and money now that Lipo's have arrived. My feeling is the same about the old style brushed motors, now that we have the low maintenance Checkpoints and Brushless motors. Ultimatly, it should be about how well you can setup your cars chassis for the track and your driving style. This is where I prefer to spend my time. The rest is an un-necessary waste of time and money considering the technology that is available today. IMHO
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
This post pretty much sums it up.
You say anything to push Orion's lipo stuff.....You sound like that Nick scrub from Thailand..
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:05 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by pony klr
HI GUYS LETS TRY TO ANSWER MY ORIGANAL ? PLEASE
Yup...I'd LOVE to see sub-C cells completely phased out. However...as we all know, the old timers and young/sponsored crowd hate the idea of the hobby going Lipo and Brushless.

Yet as I remember it, this hobby used to be about DRIVING and FUN. Nowdays, with everyone digging deeper to blindly consume the "NEXT BIG THING!!!" The base of this hobby is feeling alienated. Thus the reason I'm getting rid of all my OVERPRICED TOURING CRAP and am going back to flying Helis. Besides, flying folk are ALOT less snotty. For some reason or another, alot of car guys have a huge chip on their shoulder; and quite frankly it's getting old.
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bobby J
You say anything to push Orion's lipo stuff.....You sound like that Nick scrub from Thailand..

Orions' far from being the only game in town laughing boy.
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Soviet
Thus the reason I'm getting rid of all my OVERPRICED TOURING CRAP and am going back to flying Helis. Besides, flying folk are ALOT less snotty. For some reason or another, alot of car guys have a huge chip on their shoulder; and quite frankly it's getting old.
I know a few guys that have done the same thing as you. I think they were mainly B and C main drivers.

The transition to brushless and lipo is not a seemless as you guys make it appear. First you would be forced to buy all new "overpriced touring crap" as manu's would have to redesign the cars to accomodate/exploit the weight changes. Don't like TC? Well then its even worse for you as there is no LiPo alternative for 4.8v 4 cell 12th scale racing. Plus the majority of 12th scale would also have to reengineer their rides to ake the best use of the weight distribution resulting from lipo use.

Is brushless and Lipo great technology? Sure. But rushing it as you guys seem to desire will only end up being more expensive and frustrating in the long run. Give it time...
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:29 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JKA
I know a few guys that have done the same thing as you. I think they were mainly B and C main drivers.

The transition to brushless and lipo is not a seemless as you guys make it appear. First you would be forced to buy all new "overpriced touring crap" as manu's would have to redesign the cars to accomodate/exploit the weight changes. Don't like TC? Well then its even worse for you as there is no LiPo alternative for 4.8v 4 cell 12th scale racing. Plus the majority of 12th scale would also have to reengineer their rides to ake the best use of the weight distribution resulting from lipo use.

Is brushless and Lipo great technology? Sure. But rushing it as you guys seem to desire will only end up being more expensive and frustrating in the long run. Give it time...
Sometimes A, B or C here. However I don't really have time to race anymore anyhow. Remember...the A-Main guys are the ones who live local to the track and can practice often, not the guy who lives 48 miles away, is a full time student and has to deal with $3.00 gas.

Still, since I'm 27 and have been racing in various classes since I was 10, I'd say my opinion is as valid as anyones, even Barry Bakers or Jeff Cuffs.
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