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Old 05-03-2006, 05:51 PM   #16
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Mrshells,
I currently produce and sell the best magnetizer on the market. My company is Advanced Racing Components and our magnetizer is called the Eclipse. After spending many thousands of dollars, working with electrical engineers, magnetics engineers, as well as many component distributors and manufacurers, and the head fo TDK's rare earth magnetics division, I can assure you that you really have no idea what you are getting yourself into. I too thought (several years ago I might add) that it was a very simple item, and that I could build one for less than the current market value. I will tell you that the materials alone will cost you around a thousand dollars to get started (mainly the wire as it is hard to come by in the proper sized in small quantities, so you generally will have to buy an entire roll @ around $500 dollars US, but this also depends on market value of copper . One other thing is weather you want to magnetize stock or mod or all of the above, because the FB9 series of magnets used in mod motors require a much more intense magnetic field than do the typical stock motors because thay are a different magnet.
I could go on and on and tell you everything I have researched and worked on in the last two years, but basically it would just convince you to by my magnetizer . It could be a fun time for you to figure it out as I have, so good luck if you try to do it yourself.

Jeff Wittman
Advanced Racing Components

www.arc-racing.com
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Old 05-03-2006, 06:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub
Mrshells,
I could go on and on and tell you everything I have researched and worked on in the last two years, but basically it would just convince you to by my magnetizer . It could be a fun time for you to figure it out as I have, so good luck if you try to do it yourself.
www.arc-racing.com
How much?
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Old 05-03-2006, 06:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTNTC3
That looks like fun getting to the track each week
what kind of power supply would that take

an ordinary 120v outlet?
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Old 05-03-2006, 06:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrshells
Many Thanks minicooper
ill keep you informed how it goes
at least not veryone has a downer on people trying stuff for themselvs
also talking to one of our electrical engineers today at work he says
its easy to build and not any where near the $600 dollar mark people are asking
Mrshells Xray T2
No problem. I had these book marked but I don't even have time to build my tlt-1 that's been in it's box forever! Good luck.
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Old 05-03-2006, 06:33 PM   #20
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Building a good motor (MAGNET) zapper is not as easy as you think.

It is not only the electromagnet that will saturate the magnet you are zapping.
The MECHANICAL FIXTURE that is used to transfer the magnetig field is CRITICAL in the design of the entire zapper.

To build a good magnet zapper you need to build a coil that will transfer the magnetic field extremely fast, otherwise it will BURN. Calculate the current (AMPERE-TURNS) that is required energize the coil to zap a motor magnet and you will notice that it takes a lot of current. If the transfer is not done extremely fast you will bur the coil and possibly cause a short and a FIRE!!!

There are electronics involved in the design, and they canget complicated and are expensive... you don't just plug in a coil to the 120 volt outlet, even if you use rectifiers.
YOu want to transfer an incredible amount of energy at very fast times. We are playing with units that generate in excess of 2000 Joules and are transfered in less than 120 milliseconds.

We use capacitive discharges to zap magnets. And like I said, the fixture used to transfer the field is CRITICAL. Air gap, diffusion, patterns, concentration, there are so many issues involved in getting a magnet zapper to work....

I will leave it at that.

If anyone wants a magnet zapper, BUY ONE from the companies that know what they are doing. Get the one from Jay Dub...

Like Jay Dub said, most of you have no idea of what you are getting into.

I have been working on one and I still can not get it toperform the way it has to.
I am an engineer and just like Jay I had to consult with many experts.

Last edited by BATT_MAN; 05-04-2006 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 05-03-2006, 10:17 PM   #21
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Our magnetizers currently sell for $1200 US. I know this is allot, but the solid state electronics (hint) used to control the current from the capacitors cost about half of that. It doesn't leave allot of room (economically) for the rest of the project (other electronic components, hardware, enclosures, traveling cases, hand fabricated and cnc milled components, materials and then build time.) At this price, I barelly make enough on the product to warrant building them. But I enjoy the work, and the satisfaction of seeing ther people use something I created.-Jeff
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTNTC3
That looks like fun getting to the track each week
This magnet zapper WILL NOT WORK for the magnets that we work with.
Most of the so called magnet zappers plans that you find on the NET are simple magneto rechargers for OLD CARS.
Old cars had no distributor like we use in today’s cars and a MAGNETO was used. That magneto had to be recharged. The zappers that you see on this and many other pictures are very simple in design and operation.
You can try it only to find that you will not get a long term result from your magnets if any at all. It is very easy to zap and get false readings from a magnet...

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration (and I will put it in plain English) is that it is important the distance, angle, and the magnetic strength that you are transmitting to the magnets. Just like in our motors, air gap, is CRITICAL.

So many variables and issues need to be taken into consideration when designing the right zapper.
I said before that the fixture is critical and that can make a huge difference.
The fixture is referred as the mechanical parts that are machined to pass the magnetic field unto the magnets. If this fixture is not designed properly you will never energize the magnets to their full potential.

Also, the above-mentioned zapper lacks any electronics and safety measures.

To zap a magnet properly it needs to be pulsated at the right energy level and the field dispersion generated by the combination of the coils/fixture has to be just right.

$1200 is NOTHING for the zapper that Jay sells. I have worked on some zappers that work at a very high voltage (in excess of 15Kv) and they cost more than $7500 + the fixtures (different fixtures for different magnets) and the required power supply.

The reason you will NOT find any published magnet zappers that will work is because they are expensive a lots of engineering know how go into their design.
Just look into the companies that sell commercial magnet zappers (not for the RC industry) and after you see their prices you will realize that for $1200 you are getting a bargain.

Jay is right about the cost, he is not making it up.
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:32 AM   #23
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jeff sells a superior product. i have used his zapper,,and it really is a miracle at how well it works... it would be well wotrth the money to get one,,some of us racers are thinking about pooling our money to purchase one
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:01 AM   #24
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No disrespect to any of the guys selling magnet zappers but at one time or another each of them started where Mrshells is at right now. They were curious as to what makes them work and wondered if they could get them to work. Some figured out how to build them others gave up and walked away. Imagine if any of the current manufacturers of zappers had given up, we'd only have maybe 1 or 2 zappers to choose from. Right now we have at least 5 manufacturers that sell/cater striclty to R/C or slot car racers.
I say let Mrshells experiment, who knows, in a year he might be selling a magnet zapper.
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:43 AM   #25
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minicooper is right where would you guys have been if you didnt experiment ?
im not after manufacturers to give away there designs !
thanks to batt-man and jay dub its surprising how much knowledge can be gained by what people dont tell you
one manufacturer lets you download a full set of operating instructions
when i gave these to our electrical engineer at work he said it was simple science and not at all hard
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Old 05-04-2006, 04:23 AM   #26
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also looking around at variuos websites for suppliers of magnet wire I can get a 100 metre roll for the equivelent of about $50 depending on the gauge and working in an industry where i can get most other components for free and lathe turning ang milling also free I reckon i can build one quite cheaply ! I may have to caal in a few
favours and even write some I O Us

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Old 05-04-2006, 04:33 AM   #27
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heres an interesting link

http://www.slotside.com/tt/techman/qa/techa29.html
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Old 05-04-2006, 07:38 AM   #28
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Mrshells- Here is your first "hint". Simple "magnet" wire is not going to be satisfactory because the coatings are not designed to be used with the high amperages that you will be (read, need to be) producing. Our magnetizer produces over 30,000 peak amperes when discharging. (hint two BTW) Granted it is on the order of 8 milliseconds, but still important (this is one of the most important peramiters you willl need to design around, and hint 3

Soon, I will start charging you for this info -JEff
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Old 05-04-2006, 10:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub
Mrshells- Here is your first "hint". Simple "magnet" wire is not going to be satisfactory because the coatings are not designed to be used with the high amperages that you will be (read, need to be) producing. Our magnetizer produces over 30,000 peak amperes when discharging. (hint two BTW) Granted it is on the order of 8 milliseconds, but still important (this is one of the most important peramiters you willl need to design around, and hint 3

Soon, I will start charging you for this info -JEff
Jeff,

As your friend I will take this opportunity to remind you that there are liability concerns involved with giving some of this information away. The same liability concerns that have previously prevented me from publishing my circuit design. We are dealing with LETHAL amounts of current and while some may have the expertise or help from others to handle this, many do not. Please do not put yourself in this position and let this die.

MrShells I empathize with you dilemma. I too did not know about these devices and was curious enough to educate myself on them but it is during that education that I learned to RESPECT the DEADLY forces we are dealing with. The information is available on the Internet to do what you desire but please learn the proper techniqes and RESPECT for electricity before you hurt yourself. There are many out there who will LEAP before they learn and may possibly get hurt. We should all try to avoid this.....

Art

[/END SOAPBOX] sorry....
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub
Mrshells,
I currently produce and sell the best magnetizer on the market. My company is Advanced Racing Components and our magnetizer is called the Eclipse. After spending many thousands of dollars, working with electrical engineers, magnetics engineers, as well as many component distributors and manufacurers, and the head fo TDK's rare earth magnetics division, I can assure you that you really have no idea what you are getting yourself into. I too thought (several years ago I might add) that it was a very simple item, and that I could build one for less than the current market value. I will tell you that the materials alone will cost you around a thousand dollars to get started (mainly the wire as it is hard to come by in the proper sized in small quantities, so you generally will have to buy an entire roll @ around $500 dollars US, but this also depends on market value of copper . One other thing is weather you want to magnetize stock or mod or all of the above, because the FB9 series of magnets used in mod motors require a much more intense magnetic field than do the typical stock motors because thay are a different magnet.
I could go on and on and tell you everything I have researched and worked on in the last two years, but basically it would just convince you to by my magnetizer . It could be a fun time for you to figure it out as I have, so good luck if you try to do it yourself.

Jeff Wittman
Advanced Racing Components

www.arc-racing.com

Jeff,

You and I have exchanged emails in the past...
I agree with you that this kind of information should not be passed along to people that do not know what they are doing. The liability issues are there and you never know when they will come back and bite you.

The amount of energy necessary to generate the magnetic field is immense. We are talking in the Kilojoules range.
Just to give most of you an example, it only takes about 20 Joules to punch a hole through aluminum foil creating lots of sparks. 35 Joules is enough to weld a small wire to a surface. Being that this transfer is almost instantaneous; the result is a power transfer of hundreds of watts.
Now just imagine when we are working with 25,000+ Amps.
To give some of you an idea, 300 Joules can transfer in excess of 1500 amps in less than 45 milliseconds.
Does anyone know how many Joules it takes to stop a heart or to get it to fibrillate. MUCH LESS than what it is needed to zap a battery or a magnet.

We have worked with magnet energizers that work in the Kv range.
The wire needs to be special, the way you design the core for the coil is unique and if it is not designed the right way you can get into all kinds of problems.

I have nothing against experimentation and it is GREAT that people have the interest to do it. However, it takes a lot more than wire and a free mill and lathe to design and build the right magnet energizer... and I use the word ENERGIZER because that is what we are doing, we are ENERGIZING the magnet. The zapping is just the METHOD and not the process. We use the word ZAP because we do the ENERGIZING CYCLE at very high speeds... in the millisecond range.

All I can say is tha one of the MOST DIFFICULT projects I have undertaken is the design and production of a COMMERCIAL MAGNET ENERGIZER for RC motors.

To build a cheap zapper is EASY, but it WILL NIT WORK and it will be a HAZARD to the one using it.

Not everyone can design an electronic switch that will transfer Kilo amps in milliseconds... It is not that difficult, but you have to have the knowledge in electronics to design such circuits.
The other part that I have emphasized and no one seems to touch on it is the actual FIXTURE. I will not give away details, but if the fixture is not designed the right way, you will not energize the magnet to its potential.

Years ago while helping a group of sophomore engineers at the University build a coil prototype we avoided a catastrophic accident. Most people do not realize that the magnetic field being created by the wires that make up the coil have to absorb the energy, and I am talking physical energy as a JOLT. A coil that was built by a student without the proper knowledge in winding coils was extremely dangerous. The wires were in a pattern that when heated they could have created a short and it was wound loose. Well, if that coil would have been energized it would have come undone; the wires could have severed and caused physical harm to all the persons that were around the coil. After we noticed that we decided to energize the coil in a controlled environment to see the effects. Not to exaggerate, but the wires put a hell of a shock on a 1” wall of Lexan and the explosion was AMAZING. It taught all the students a great lesson.

There are many factors involved in designing a high energy magnet energizer (ZAPPER). As far as I know few companies in the WORLD produce magnet energizers.

If the job would be that easy, anyone could start a magnet energizing company!


Isaac Krajmalnik, PE
www.axxis-racing.com
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