R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-02-2006, 10:21 PM   #91
Tech Addict
 
josh69162's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 641
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to josh69162
Default

About the comment where hobby shops are asked to make the race more valuable. Here's what MY hobby shop does for ME. I pay $15 to register for the race, and then I have to pay another $15 so I can use a pit table and get AC power (because I don't have a $400 generator). For my $30 race fee, I get a dusty, pine needle filled, leafy, nonswept track, with no traction additive of any sort. Once, I had to get a blower MYSELF (I actually went in and asked for the blower so I could clean the track) to get ANY sort of clean racing surface. That is rediculous and retarded. If I didn't enjoy the other racers company, and enjoy socializing in between heats, I don't think I would ever step foot on the premises. I don't know if there are a lot of other hobby shops like that, but that's how mine is.
-Josh
josh69162 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2006, 11:16 PM   #92
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh69162
About the comment where hobby shops are asked to make the race more valuable. Here's what MY hobby shop does for ME. I pay $15 to register for the race, and then I have to pay another $15 so I can use a pit table and get AC power (because I don't have a $400 generator). For my $30 race fee, I get a dusty, pine needle filled, leafy, nonswept track, with no traction additive of any sort. Once, I had to get a blower MYSELF (I actually went in and asked for the blower so I could clean the track) to get ANY sort of clean racing surface. That is rediculous and retarded. If I didn't enjoy the other racers company, and enjoy socializing in between heats, I don't think I would ever step foot on the premises. I don't know if there are a lot of other hobby shops like that, but that's how mine is.
-Josh
I believe this track is handled like this, I would move to another track, group and all. I just looked, and Houston has more then one track, if I understand you are located in Houston.... The tracks around me are not managed this way...
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2006, 11:54 PM   #93
Tech Fanatic
 
Drewdc90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast Australia
Posts: 828
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ryan
4-cell isn’t going to turn sedan racing into a fair playing field where all the cars are more evenly powered. The guys willing to spend the cash for the very best stuff will keep doing it. And money will still equal speed.

Going to 4-cell isn’t going to make racing less expensive. You’ll still need to keep buying the latest batteries. And you’ll still have to buy and maintain the latest and greatest motors. And drum roll please… you’ll even have to buy a new “designed for 4-cell” car… and you’re old chassis won’t be worth much on eBay. Oh yea, and that new 4-cell ESC will set you back a few bucks as well.

Going 4-cell won’t reduce maintenance. The fast guys will still clean, cut, and re-brush every run.

4-cell won’t slow the cars down or make them more durable. Well, initially it will slow top speed, but less weight will make for higher corner speed which will equal similar lap times and just as many broken parts. Most of us crash in the corners. Not to mention that within a couple of months Reedy and Orion and the rest will come out with their new big-buck “specially designed for 4-cell” motors, and folks will gear up for their new 4800 batteries, and all the speed (and cost, and maintenance) will be back again.

4-cell won’t make you more competitive or a better driver. Sorry. Racing R/C cars will never be cheap or easy.



Brushless motors and new battery technologies are inevitable, and many of the same points apply. Brushless and LiPo revolutionized R/C airplanes because they radically increased the power to weight. It hasn’t caught on as quickly in car racing because we push the motor and battery to the max and the current technology (especially LiPo) wasn’t intended for such punishment. Typical R/C electric airplanes aren’t raced head-to-head and thus there’s no need to push the motor/ESCs or batteries nearly as hard as we do racing cars.

In a typical electric airplane, a brushless motor and ESC will last forever (err, well, at least until you inevitably lawn dart it). In car racing it’ll only last until you read here on RCTech about the new “faster” version that was just introduced.

And don’t be fooled into thinking LiPo packs are all the same and will last forever. In the airplane world there have already been several generations of new cells that have significant performance improvements. Like other battery technologies, there is no end in sight.

LiPos work great in airplanes because they fit just fine right where the old round-cell packs used to go, they aren’t typically pushed to their absolute limits, and airplane guys tend to be a lot more safety conscious. Electric car racers however like to push everything to its melting point looking for speed. Do the same thing with LiPos and soon there are going to be some really ugly fireballs at a track near you. Oh yea, and if you overcharge them they catch on fire. Or over discharge them. Or short them for just a millisecond. Or puncture them. And the best part is sometimes they don’t turn into a fireball right away… they might look just fine for 10 minutes, and then suddenly its showtime!

For some interesting LiPo reading, go here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187
I agree totally with what you said. I think LiPo will improve and be a bit safer and in time it will probably be the batteries to run. I think brushless would make a more level playing field than most other things suggested to do that and are now as quick as brushed motors.
Drew.
__________________
-Xray--Nosram--Orion--Trak Power--Duratrax--Spektrum--Futaba-

Sunshine Coast QLD AUSTRALIA

"If you stand still long enough you'll go backwards"

Last edited by Drewdc90; 05-03-2006 at 02:13 AM.
Drewdc90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 02:08 AM   #94
Tech Elite
 
nf_ekt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Posts: 4,632
Trader Rating: 113 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh69162
About the comment where hobby shops are asked to make the race more valuable. Here's what MY hobby shop does for ME. I pay $15 to register for the race, and then I have to pay another $15 so I can use a pit table and get AC power (because I don't have a $400 generator). For my $30 race fee, I get a dusty, pine needle filled, leafy, nonswept track, with no traction additive of any sort. Once, I had to get a blower MYSELF (I actually went in and asked for the blower so I could clean the track) to get ANY sort of clean racing surface. That is rediculous and retarded. If I didn't enjoy the other racers company, and enjoy socializing in between heats, I don't think I would ever step foot on the premises. I don't know if there are a lot of other hobby shops like that, but that's how mine is.
-Josh
Man if I were you I would make my voice heard... no way is that a positive experience or worth the cash involved. Get others involved and make a change. I personally have used the blower at the local track to get the surface clean on practice days (free of charge so worth it) but if I were paying on a race day and had to do this I'd be more than alittle irritated.

As for generators... you dont have to spend alot. I found a small 2 stroke generator that is sold at pepboys (called the TQ ) that goes for around 140 or so. I've used it at least 15-20 times and no worries. Anyways that track your speaking of is way off point- maybe it's time to find another spot or speak up.
__________________
Up the Irons \m/

Powered by Hotwings, Rolling Rock, and the urge to race toy cars...
nf_ekt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 02:12 AM   #95
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

There never will be a fair playing field even if a motor turn limit is enforced,27t,19t they all has the same problem- CONTROL of how fast a motor can go. This has always been made easier since the introduction of rebuildable stock motors although,with the sealed cans it was possible if you knew what you were doing.

Ok,we all know the 540 motors are not exactly going to propel the next spaceship into orbit,lol but they are a good example of a BASIC motor that I expect cannot be modified very much to get an advantage.

Technology has made us faster coupled with the ability to open motors and maintain/improve them but on the other hand if we all raced 540s most of us would be pulling our hair out,lol.
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 02:37 AM   #96
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvoltz
One other question, do you own: www.rc-direct.co.uk ?
Yes, I do.
sosidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 07:33 AM   #97
Tech Regular
 
TC Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 363
Default

After a 15 year hiatous, I recently came back into the sport roughly 9 months ago. Back then where I was racing, carpet wasn't nearly as popular as offroad was. Why? It wasn't complicated and didn't take a fortune to be competitive. A back-yard basher that had a little practice and a drop of notion to ask questions could be competitive against some of the quicker guys in stock. Now that the hobby has evolved so much from technology advancements, it takes a lot more than just a little skill to be competitive. No-one knew 10 or 15 years ago what the hell droop was. These TC's have so many tuning and adjustment options that its overwhelming to a "newbie" that may just want to throw a car on the track, go fast, and win. "Newbie's" also have to want to get better, both through practice driving and car set-up. If I didn't read everything I could get my hands on to understand how the car works (suspension geometry and auto racing physics books and Mags.), I would have gotten frustrated and possibly quit as well. All else fails, ask someone. I asked a few guys that are top drivers at my LHS and tracks for help.
Another observation, there are way too many classes and and classes of vehicles. Back in the day, pan car or gear box, thats it. Now, TC stock, 19t, and Mod., 1/12 scale stock, 19t, Mod., 1/10 oval, offroad, truck, Truggy, Stadium truck, and wait...an abundance of nitro classes that have been getting more popular. Adding classes is not the answer, there's too many now.
Going along those same lines, too many guys running stock that shouldn't be. Maybe because mod is ridiculously expensive or they need to win every national title and international title twice, but move to higher level of class. I'm sick and tired of seeing the same "A" Main line up at every big race. Once you win a National or equivalent, move up. Half the fun in this hobby is the competitiveness and finding a way to catch the guys that are faster. When you have 10-20 guys at every event that are fully sponsored by 6 manufacturers, it gets a bit frustrating to watch them continue to stay in stock and stroke their egos.
There's no doubt in my mind that "newbie's" get frustrated and quit. For a multitude of reasons. Experienced guys need to take the time to help newbies and guys that are struggling. If they refuse the help, at least you were a racer that was looking to help someone get better and stayin the sport, just a little effort goes a long way.
Stock isn't what it what it was intended to be. Stock is supposed to be for the guys starting out and working on their driving and car set-ups. Not what we see today.
4 or 5 cells, lipo, brushless, etc. all may wind up being the common place at one point or another, but I don't think they're a permenent solution to the problem. Cost is what it is. It's not that drastically different from 15 years ago, technology just keeps evolving. Batteries are $10 more a pack that they were years ago, motors $5-7 for stock. It's not as bad as it seems. If your paying a whole lot more, you need to find a new LHS that's not trying to fund their retirement off you.
I agree with some points here, but I think trying to shift from 27t and 3800's to brushless and lipos would be way more expensive to re-tool everyone's pit. It's not the answer. Just my 2cents.
Dan
TC Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 07:44 AM   #98
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Well Said TC Guy.


I too had a break from racing about 3/4 years ago. It was only for 6 months/a year but things had already been getting faster in the time I left and came back.

Imho the 2 main subjects are cost and technology which are making it hard to control how fast a car goes.

Take one away and youre left with a slower car,which in turn should allow closer racing.


Just a thought but how about a class with yokomo pro stock motors? Sealed endbell so you'll soon see if its been opened and you can get them in a variety of winds.
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 07:50 AM   #99
Tech Elite
 
Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 4,910
Default

To answer the original question: move up to 19T and let the newbies scrap it out in stock.
__________________
Mason McCombs
NewRed Hobbies & Indoor Facility
Off-Road, Dirt Oval, Crawlers & Pullers
Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 07:51 AM   #100
Tech Master
 
burbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,152
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to burbs Send a message via Yahoo to burbs
Default

I personally think the4 cell switch is to get ready for lipos.. Not the speed of course, but i had heard a 4 cel pack weighs the same as a 7.4 lipo pack.. This will help the car companies get a jump start in designing cars with the proper weight distribution..
burbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 08:00 AM   #101
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason
To answer the original question: move up to 19T and let the newbies scrap it out in stock.
I think you could be right to a certain degree,but some clubs in the UK are small so they only race 1 class.

Also,the thing is that a lot of the more experienced drivers prefer to stay in the 27turn classes and not move up. Im not saying this is a bad thing,we should be allowed to race in whatever class we want to,but it can stop the "average Joe" from progressing to the top.

Maybe there should be a 540 class too? If you give racers a choice then the classes get spead out a little more. The 27turn class is getting really busy in some clubs and that bogs down some racers to lower positions even if theyre doing everything that they can on the track. Must be quite disheartening at times?
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 09:09 AM   #102
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Cambridge, UK
Posts: 180
Default

I have a friend who experimented with using 4 cells in his car for several months. He had no problems equalling the speeds of 27 turn with a 19t motor, and equalling the speeds of 19t with a 10-12t motor. He was running in the 6 cell classes and could run within tenths of a second lap times with the other A final drivers.. For stock and 19t classes I don't think there would be a problem the run 4 cells but higher wind motors. His motor comm was barely getting burnt up or needing skimming to make it properly round again. One disadvantage is that he was only just managing to last 5 mins, with his cells dumping pretty soon afterwards (3700's). He also struggled to achieve 50/50 left right weight balance in some of his cars (I know he had this problem with the FK05)

6 cells or lipo would have to remain for modified, as the speeds wont be replicated with 4 cells. I don't think many people want to slow the cars down, just reduce the costs and hassle of racing, especially for the newcomers.
ralph_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 09:17 AM   #103
Tech Addict
 
gacjr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 725
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

My club has a similar problem; people trying to go too fast. There is no stock class here, yet 80% of the racers in 19t class can't drive it and should be in stock. These slow guys then complain that they don't get a fair chance to win and kick out the top drivers to a 19t "expert class" so now the top 3-5 guys have a class of their own and gee what fun that is. So now the fast guys may not be able to race ("3 cars to make a class-rule") and the slow guys don't learn from the competition. Any suggestions on how to sell the idea of stock to a club?
__________________
-Dangerous with power tools-
gacjr0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 09:25 AM   #104
Tech Regular
 
Hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 314
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Well Said TC Guy.
Yup, he basically said what I said about two pages ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by TC Guy
All else fails, ask someone. I asked a few guys that are top drivers at my LHS and tracks for help.
This is what I am talking about. Nothing beats the interaction in the pits. If you LHS and track people were stuck up, you probably would have quit. Not 4 cells, sealed can motors, Lipos, or whatever BS tech garbage that is being spewed on this thread would have saved you. Just a couple of nice guys to help out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Imho the 2 main subjects are cost and technology which are making it hard to control how fast a car goes.
Take one away and youre left with a slower car,which in turn should allow closer racing.
If there is less power, then there is an emphasis on setup and driving. The fast guys will be faster and the newb's will be more frustrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Just a thought but how about a class with yokomo pro stock motors? Sealed endbell so you'll soon see if its been opened and you can get them in a variety of winds.
I am not trying to single you out on this, so please don't be offended, but you guys need to stop blaming technology (that you won't be able to stop) for the sport's problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsquare
Hustler, you make a good point - making new people feel welcome can go a long way in helping RC Racing grow.
I am more then happy to help anyone I can at the track, but sometimes I am just to busy with my "damm" batteries and motors to help.
Thanks. I agree that we all are busy in the pits, but if the sport is this important to us, then helping someone new should be more important than our "damn batteries".

At SARC we race two heats and a main in about three hours on a Tuesday night. You have to be on it in your pit in order to do well. I will still drop what I am doing when a newb asks for help.

It should be that important to us, especially the guys who are getting deals from the manufacturers. They don't HAVE to cut that comm, they can pull out another motor. I don't have a second motor in every class. If my comm doesn't get cut because I helped someone out, then oh well. If I don't make the main because my car was junk, oh well. I take this sport seriously, but having 30 guys to race against in your class is a lot more fun than having 5.

Stop this nonsense about how technology has screwed up your sport, or the nonsense that technology will save it. It is BS. Get out of your pits and help these new people. Crack a joke with them instead of being a jerk to them. Then they might stick around...

-Sean
Hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2006, 09:43 AM   #105
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default Say By ! By! to even more racer`s...

Woud`nt going to 4 cells just isolate Sedan`s from the other race program`s ? ..


Racer`s from off-road would not be able to cross over cuz their 6 cells won`t fit the Sedan`s....

If 4 cell gets approved , I predict even smaller turnouts for the Sedan`s .....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
slow garys Chat Lounge 37 03-03-2008 03:31 AM
why so slow?????? blue hornet. Australian Racing 19 02-23-2008 04:07 AM
slow-v Branden Moody R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 9 02-26-2007 07:30 PM
How can I slow an RC down for my son? NinjaViper Electric On-Road 23 02-08-2005 11:30 AM
car getting slow webdog Rookie Zone 6 05-06-2004 03:53 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:21 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net