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Old 05-01-2006, 08:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Racingbod85
Hi all! just thought id bring up this issue. japan has gone to 4-cell to reduce cost and speed. apparently other countries are considering following them. i cant see why the electric racers are being penalised when all i want is to go quicker . they reckon safety is the reason!!! hara was clocked at the DHI cup at 58mph - so what - mark greens lap record of crystal palace with his 1/8th is 60mph average! whats worse a 60mph 1.5kg electric or a kicking and screaming 100mph 1/8th!? i know restrictions are put on engine construction for these rockets but it don't knock that much off them!!

also lipo cannot achieve 4.8v with the current cells knocking them straight out.the use of lipo and brushless in the long run is much cheaper and very much quicker.

let me know what you think
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by UCHEATULOSE
i'm willing to bet that roar will not be the driving force behind this radical thinking. i'm willing to bet that a local core of racers with the concept of reducing the costs of racing and making the hobby more appealing to the new guy who makes the switch over to 4 cells. and after a year or more roar and whoever will follow suit because of added pressure from the racers.


you guys by the chassis of the month now anyways. someone comes out with a new car you all run out and buy it. than another company makes a 2.39 mm chassis for carpet and you all run out and buy it.

i figure if someone like the florida on-road series were to try a 4 cell class in 2007 and it caught on thats all it would take? than a company would of course make 4 cell chassis. the question is....who realy will be the first in the US to think outside the box and promote 4 cell toruing car racing?

lipo batteries and brushless motors will not slow down the cars, if anything they will be lighter and faster all at the same time.

AGAIN...IS IT DOOR TO DOOR RACING OR 55 MPH SPEEDS THAT MAKE RACING FUN? ever run at your local track and see the same guys over and over again? ever see that new guy come to your track only to never come back again? stock motors have got nothing but faster every year. batteries have got nothing but faster every year.

ever look at the lap times from the mod and 19 turn classes at your local track? most of the lap times are withing a 10th of a second from each other.this is because 98% of us cannot control the power and alot of tracks do not accomodate the mod motors. because the track is low bite or is just technical by nature.FUN IS NOT 55 MPH...FUN IS 10 CARS ON THE SAME LAP AT 4 MINUTES! crazy i know.
I agree, today's Brushless/Lipo combination is fast, but that is not what is important in this conversation. IMHO, it is the combination of this new technology to allow a begining racer to spend less time and money on maintaining a competitive car and more time racing a competitive car.

The immediate knowledge and equipment needed to tune and maintain a motor, or the care needed to maintain matched cells is no longer important. The new racer will not feel compelled to buy motor lathes, carry around an inventory of motor brushes and springs, discharge and equalising trays and on and on... When they get to a point in their racing in which they wish to invest more time and money into the finer details of the hobby, they will be better prepared for the long-run in this hobby.

Lastly, Bringing to the market, slower and less costly brushless motors set-ups for beginners is probably already in the minds of Novak and LRP. I would imagine you will be seeing brushless RTR's very shortly.

My hope is that Brushless motor technology along with Lipo battery cells will help our hobby to expand. If our hobby can provide a cost and time effective way for a beginner to have fun racing competitively, I feel we will all benefit. IMHO.
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:41 PM   #33
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Many clubs in US are indoor, that limits their size. 19T is almost as fast as mod, even stock. But there are some bigger outdoor tracks with 200f+ straight, silver can & stock are just too slow, you can see a big difference between 19T and mod. 4 cells + brushless will be great, lower cost with good speed.
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:56 PM   #34
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Well, this thread starts with reduce speed in TC in general. Why suddenly shifts the focus to beginners, no one forces a beginner to run a 7T mod, that's good they learn how to drive with silver can. But experiened racer will want more speed than a silver can or stock motor can provide.
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Old 05-01-2006, 09:11 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Tsquare
...

Lastly, Bringing to the market, slower and less costly brushless motors set-ups for beginners is probably already in the minds of Novak and LRP. I would imagine you will be seeing brushless RTR's very shortly.
...
See XRC Cars May 2006 issue page 19... Losi XXX-S brushless RTR
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:03 PM   #36
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As a newbie, July will be one year, the speed is not my problem, motors are not my problem, not getting 1st on Saturday is not my problem (I do not care at this point). These Freakin batteries are a MAJOR pain in the butt. With all the things you must learn about and do to run in the A main. GOOD GOD wake up and smell LiPo. Just to run at the local club racing I have dropped about 2,000 in having stuff to run good, this includes the oops with equipment that had to be tossed. Stop this madness and go to Brushless and LiPo and stop killing the new member. Start a LiPo/Brushless class for the newbie, and let the old times run the brush motors if they would like, and mess with motor and batteries. This is way to much for the newbie.

On the pack size, what ever is done, make it across the board, it is a little dumb to have 4 cell for this class and 5 cell for this class, etc... This would drive me nuts.. If 4 cell is the new normal, fine then 4 cell for all classes.

I agree, have a brushless that is around 100 watts for stock... Maybe that is what the rules should read, limit the motor by the watts for a class... how to tech it... good quesiton, but I sure that some one has an answer...
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:05 AM   #37
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Clubs should have the brushless/lipo class soon for sure. Consider it the "restrictor-plate" class if you will. I;d love to see racing where set-up and skill really did shine through. Ofcourse keep all the usual classes because alot of racers want (and deserve) to enjoy the benefits of putting time into motor tuning, ect. BL-LIPO would be the modern spec class for racing.

Motor tuners/battery matchers make a living at what they do, and rightfully so.... So dont change everything. Make a class to go along with the existing ones and see what happens. And hey since Li-po has hit the market a bit stronger,I've noticed it's made NIMH packs a bit cheaper anyways.. At one point a killer set of 3300's could run you 80-100+ now you can find great 3700/3800 packs for much less.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:29 AM   #38
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You don't -have- to group BL and LiPo together. BL works now, and quite well. LiPo is getting there too, but it's got a lot more usability issues to be worked out.

4 cells with faster motors sounds like a nice change. Packs will be cheaper, and for the average club racer, the speeds won't change much. You just get into a sticky situation on what the new "control" motor should be for non-mod racing. Maybe a 12T fixed timing? There's all kinds issues that would need to be worked out which would have more of an impact at the club level than large events.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:36 AM   #39
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Racingbod85

I didn't read all the other messages in this thread, so I don't know if this was addressed or not...but I can tell you what I've seen for a reason for 4 cell TOURING Modified.

A) Not enough racers running MODIFIED on a National basis. Therefore for makers of MODIFIED MOTORS are not selling enough of them.

B) 4 cell will make a MOD car a little easier to drive, therefore NEW racers might become attracted (Where now it's just pretty much the old timers)

Don't buy into the "It's CHEAPER" crap, it's about MAKING MONEY (I don't have a problem with that...)
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:45 AM   #40
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How's it more expensive though? Fewer cells means less batteries sold. Running mod motors that are underpowered rather than stock and 19T motors pushed to their limits means, ideally, you'd get MORE life from your motors. Granted, they cost a bit more, but less maintenance on a motor should mean less cost for racers. Fewer brush replacements, fewer comm cuts, etc.

If anything, it sounds like there are many advantages for consumers when going to 4 cells. Anything that reduces the barrier of entry and cost to maintain this hobby should be very carefully considered.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:46 AM   #41
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At the risk of some major flaming I'll make a quick point here.

There is a lot of talk about making things easier and/or cheaper for beginners.

No offence but really, how much easier can it be?

Current touring cars equipped with 540 motors are hardly difficult to drive, nor costly to run. And contrary to what many believe, they DON'T require a large amount of support equipment - it's just that people will often use equipment as an excuse before looking at their own skills.

It's a tired old saying - People buy what they WANT, not what they NEED.

It seems not many people remember what it was like to race 15-20 years when you only really had off-road, tyres were crap, cars weren't too good, and they required lots of expensive hop-ups to stop them from falling apart etc

I think in some ways we've all become a bit lazy, and we expect to just buy our equipment, drop it on the track, then go and win with it. Sorry but it doesn't work like that - good results take effort.

Look at it like this, if you decided to start playing Tennis as a hobby, would you expect to be good straight away, even if your equipment (racquet) was the same as the current top player?

No. You'd understand that you're likely to be hopeless to start with and just practice until you become good.

Shouldn't that philosophy apply to any sport/hobby?

IMO it doesn't matter if everyone starts running brushless and Lipo - it's not going to create some magically even class.

There will always be someone that can extract more performance out of a given motor/battery/car etc than your average driver, that's the nature of a the game.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:56 AM   #42
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I hope nobody misunderstands my comment about "Not Buying into the "IT'S CHEAPER CRAP" as meaning it will be more expensive.

It WILL be cheaper, it HAS proven to be CHEAPER in OVAL racing...and it took less than a YEAR to go as fast w/ 4 cell as we were going w/ 6 cell.

(Granted if we were still running 6 cell we'd be EVEN FASTER)

That being said, this idea would NOT affect ANYONE who wants to run 90 mph in their local parking lot destroying thier car into a parking curb.

At the same time "FASTER" does NOT make for better, or even sometimes "GOOD" racing. It's cool to watch a couple FAST CARS dice it out on a large track...but all in all, Good racing makes a better show.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:06 AM   #43
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I love hearing the "rich" folks at the track say "Get over it, this hobby costs money."

Matter of fact, I'm just tired of that whole a-hole mentality. The TC and electric onraod scene is shrinking because folks with fat wallets drive the cost of racing up...UP...and UP!

TC is already burning itself out...just look at the resurgence in offroad nationwide. Why is offroad more popular? Well..without writing a paper, I'd tell you it's because the cars aren't insane expensive and generally it's a more forgiving class. Plus being more 'fun' doesn't hurt...

TC has LONG strayed from it's parking-lot roots. Hmm...parking lots, remember racing in those??? Matter of fact, I thought thats why TCs were created in the first place...
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:05 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Soviet
I love hearing the "rich" folks at the track say "Get over it, this hobby costs money."

Matter of fact, I'm just tired of that whole a-hole mentality. The TC and electric onraod scene is shrinking because folks with fat wallets drive the cost of racing up...UP...and UP!

TC is already burning itself out...just look at the resurgence in offroad nationwide. Why is offroad more popular? Well..without writing a paper, I'd tell you it's because the cars aren't insane expensive and generally it's a more forgiving class. Plus being more 'fun' doesn't hurt...

TC has LONG strayed from it's parking-lot roots. Hmm...parking lots, remember racing in those??? Matter of fact, I thought thats why TCs were created in the first place...
Well Said....May us people with skinny wallets unite...!

Drive down the cost of RC...! Keep our wallets fatter...!
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Davenport
my point is why go to 4 cell? why not just run a 30t or higher motor.
In theory it sounds like a good idea.

But put into practice I think yes it would start off being good but as time and technology progress the speeds encountered will just get higher,as they have with 27t motors. Go back 5 or 6 years and im sure there simply wasnt as much torque or speed to them.

It's what happens in any racing,the rules get amended to "try" and make the cars slower,but the technology finds a way round it.

Look at F1,it's a prime example.
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