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Old 05-13-2006, 01:11 AM   #181
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also re;;this hobby of our`s
There are quite a few racers that use this Hobby to show they have more money to spend then the next person , they might drive like a complete arse but they have the latest gadjet from the Gadjetron shop sitting on there table (paul )
so any new comer seeing all this junk will think `hey` i may have to get all this & buy my race wins instead of trying to get it with my skill
so he joins the `jonesy`s` of this world to keep up with them
what`s this got to do with the thread title (i don`t know really )
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:19 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
also re;;this hobby of our`s
There are quite a few racers that use this Hobby to show they have more money to spend then the next person , they might drive like a complete arse but they have the latest gadjet from the Gadjetron shop sitting on there table (paul )
All the gear - no idea! I know what you mean.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:52 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by nagatahawk
would 4 cell batteries used for oval be compatible for 4 cell touring? if they are it would make it a lot easier for me to race on road.

it should.
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:23 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
also re;;this hobby of our`s
There are quite a few racers that use this Hobby to show they have more money to spend then the next person , they might drive like a complete arse but they have the latest gadjet from the Gadjetron shop sitting on there table (paul )
so any new comer seeing all this junk will think `hey` i may have to get all this & buy my race wins instead of trying to get it with my skill
so he joins the `jonesy`s` of this world to keep up with them
what`s this got to do with the thread title (i don`t know really )

There are these kinda people...Oh well...
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Old 05-13-2006, 10:34 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Ben.C
There are these kinda people...Oh well...
Dude, Almost everone I used to race with was like that....had too much money...LOL
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Old 05-14-2006, 08:17 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by James35
And this is why I am for a slower brushless motor with less than 130W of power (preferrably 100W). It will help to level the playing field. It will eliminate the advantage that a veteran has with equipment for tuning a motor. It eliminates the need to spend a lot of money on motors. It brings the new driver up to the same level of motor power instantly. The new driver can then focus on learning to drive better.

I'd like to see ROAR change the rules to classify motors by power. For example, I'd like to see (540 sized) Stock = maximum of 100 Watts of power at 7.2V. Regardless if it is brushed, brushless, bushings or bearings.

As Big Jim used to say:
"Horsepower is horsepower! Speed then is just a matter of gearing. HP (Watts) = RPM x Torque"
746 Watts = 1 electric horsepower

I know that ROAR is trying to keep the pricing down by saying stock motors should be under x amount of dollars. But in reality, a brushless motor costs less in the long run, and prices will continue to come down as more and more brushless are made.

As brushed and brushless become mixed into racing, it's like comparing apples to oranges. For example, what brushless motor could be allowed in a 19T brushed class? I think the solution is simple. ROAR should define the max power allowed in each motor class. That way, it doesn't matter if you use brushed, brushless, bearings or bushings. Horsepower is horsepower. This is the only true way of determining how fast motors are.

For 540 sized motors:
Stock motor class = maximum of 100 Watts of power at 7.2V
SuperStock motor class = maximum of 200 Watts of power at 7.2V
Modified motor class = unlimited watts of power
i like the sound of this... this is representative of the true intention of having different motors classes anyway (what is the point of having a stock and 19t if they both put out the same power?) ...but what i don't know is how could it be enforced. after all, if it can't be enforced, people will find loopholes, whether intentional or otherwise.

i suppose the current regulations started with the right intentions too... restricting motors to # turns... then someone changes the gauge of the wire to get an edge, so they restrict the wire gauge... then they increase the brush size... etc.etc... introducing new motors with new advantages all the time results in people buying what is new to keep a competitive advantage, which serves the opposite of trying to keeps costs down.

either all of the things that contribute to the overall power output need to be regulated, or the regulation is to put a limit on the power output, or maybe both.

given than a given motor will read differently on different dyno's... i'm no motor guru, anyone have any ideas on how any sanctioning body would be able to regulate and enforce this?
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Old 05-14-2006, 11:18 PM   #187
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Have you guys talked about tires? I mean faster is better and is being made alot more inexpensive. Now if only tires could keep up in the technology. 2 runs tires suck. Most of the time I can run tires for awhile for stock, anything else you would need a new set everynight. Maybe if tires were made someway to make them last longer and still give great traction. Make a tire like this and you would be rich!!
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Old 05-14-2006, 11:52 PM   #188
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Default Brushless Motors

In respect to the 'brushless' debate, I think the shop owners are going to hate it the most. I can go through 2 to 3 sets of brushes if I'm tinkering with my gear ratio. One run with a motor thats too hot and another $3 to $9 in brushes "poof" just like that. With brushless motors being so much more efficient in both energy consumption and maintenance.

I can only wish that I didn't have to lathe my comutator every 5 or 6 runs. It cost me $120 for the lathe and it's a cheaper one. I'm getting better at carring for my brushed motor, but even the veterans run into problems. Multiple times I've seen brushes get hung up in races and a great driver goes down due to the brushes.

But, the shop owners are going to take a significant hit if we are not buying those god forsaken brushes. However, if enough racers show up ready to race brushless, then they won't have a choice. just a though.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:14 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Goggles Paesan
In respect to the 'brushless' debate, I think the shop owners are going to hate it the most. I can go through 2 to 3 sets of brushes if I'm tinkering with my gear ratio. One run with a motor thats too hot and another $3 to $9 in brushes "poof" just like that. With brushless motors being so much more efficient in both energy consumption and maintenance.

I can only wish that I didn't have to lathe my comutator every 5 or 6 runs. It cost me $120 for the lathe and it's a cheaper one. I'm getting better at carring for my brushed motor, but even the veterans run into problems. Multiple times I've seen brushes get hung up in races and a great driver goes down due to the brushes.

But, the shop owners are going to take a significant hit if we are not buying those god forsaken brushes. However, if enough racers show up ready to race brushless, then they won't have a choice. just a though.

I feel sorry for them too....But sadly most of us are the regular budget racers.

Maybe they can change and sell the brushless motor's bearings to replace the brushes....Just a thought...
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:05 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggles Paesan
In respect to the 'brushless' debate, I think the shop owners are going to hate it the most. I can go through 2 to 3 sets of brushes if I'm tinkering with my gear ratio. One run with a motor thats too hot and another $3 to $9 in brushes "poof" just like that. With brushless motors being so much more efficient in both energy consumption and maintenance.

I can only wish that I didn't have to lathe my comutator every 5 or 6 runs. It cost me $120 for the lathe and it's a cheaper one. I'm getting better at carring for my brushed motor, but even the veterans run into problems. Multiple times I've seen brushes get hung up in races and a great driver goes down due to the brushes.

But, the shop owners are going to take a significant hit if we are not buying those god forsaken brushes. However, if enough racers show up ready to race brushless, then they won't have a choice. just a though.
I do not believe drivers will spend any less then they are now. There is a good chance that the money drivers will be saving on brushes, lathes, etc.., will be spent on more tires and other set-up hop-ups such as springs, shock oil, etc. Why will they do this? Because now they can.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:09 AM   #191
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I'm sure that shop owners will not like what I'm about to say, but if talks like a duck, and walks like a duck, good chance it is a duck....

With only 10% (most conservative number, the real number is like 2% to 4%) of consumers that purchase R/C cars/trucks to race, the other 90% are bashers, then the Shop owners need to develop programs that encourage the other 90% (of backyard bashers) to get into racing... Hell if you just got 10% more into racing, you would double or triple your current racing business. Rather then taking it out on the racers that show up every weekend… This is why you see racers getting pissed and leaving. They are getting pissed that the companies and shop owners are dictating to ROAR what to do, when at the end of the day ROAR should be acting on behalf of the racer not the companies that provide goods and services to the hobby. Believe me that smart ones will adapt. I have said this before and I will say it again, keep pissing off the racer, and then Shop Owners, when the racers are gone, Who will you sell your products and services to? Quick, tell me how many LHS/track owners have been in business for the last 10 years, 5 years… not many. Do not get me wrong, there are good Owners out there running a good program(s), but the other shop owners need to get with them and find out what they are doing. Also I hear this over and over, from shop owners, asking racers, why do you purchase your stuff online, or from abc shop, and not me? The answer is simple, stop charging for list price, and get completive with your pricing. It is simple, you make more profit in selling parts, then selling the kit to the racer, so stop selling the kit for list price. When I break on race day, and I need a part, I really do not ask the LHS the price for the part I need… Be fair and be respectable, that is all the racers are asking for. I do not expect you go meet the pricing that some online shops offer, but I do not expect pay list price for something. Why do you think people are purchasing the full kit then take the parts from it and selling it on ebay, because they can and make reasonable profits from it.

Also you can see on this post, that most of the racers want Brushless and LiPo, and most of the shop owners are fighting it. Yes, you can run brushless in Mod, but not in another class… Get a clue and get with the program.. We can kill this is with all the what ifs, but at the end of day, anything you put in place will need adjusting in the rules anyway. This is no different then before.

Shop owners it is a new day in business, with the ability to shop online, and the local racer is not your captive audience any longer, so you will need to change your business model, and start thinking about how to get more people involved, not how your take more from the small group you currently have.

Look I’m not trying to piss off the shop owners, but if we are going to have a topic like this, everyone needs to be open and listen to what other side has to say… This is only way to find some common ground.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:35 PM   #192
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should be the shop`s responsabilty to do this
surley it is the governing body that is supposed to be looking after the hobby to do this in there respective country`s

these are the ones doing all these silly rule`s to tie people`s hands
they should get of there arse`s to promote in said areas of concern
hell they take enough money of members to do this
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:48 AM   #193
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i don't know how you guys do things in the USA but for the hobby shops getting people to race, the only one on the island west coast Canada the city Victoria. for the last 4 years there's been only on road racing and the hobby shop helps promote the racing to people interested in joining the hobby.
we gave the hobby shop flyer's business cards shedual , and list of entry fees and club membership dues.
a contact list for people to phone with inquiries on racing.

we talked to the employees and owner to let potential racers know what you need to race and what is a wast of time on the track.
including motors bats and tires.

any one of the regular racers and veterans will anser qs to spectators inquiring into the hobby point them to a good starter setup to help them race.

my self i had made it a point to talk to the new racers during the club meet when time is available to explain whats needed to make there car handle.
and talk them thrugh changes and help them understand what the change does and why there doing it.

sine i started with the irocc club in Victoria in 4 years we went from 15 club members to over 50 members with the lowest turn out of 30 racers and we still manage 46 entries for a club race.

the club from day one has encouraged set up and tear down off the track.
we got on any race day 20+ guys at the outdoor track well before setup.
and during setup you will be hard pressed to find anyone lurking about in the pits.

all i know if every one in the club puts out a little effort in helping new racers and promoting the hobby and keeping your hobby shop well informed . having good attitude and a helpful manner any club could go a long way.

its not the responcibility of the hobby shop to promot your club. but its your clubs and if you talk to your local shop they SHULD be more than willing to help, we all know they are trying to make sales and if they are getting more people racing because there knowing what to tell people every one will be happier.

all i know my club is doing somthing right.

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Old 05-16-2006, 01:41 PM   #194
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Here in Jackson, The shop/track owner is the club.... We do not have club... So you can see why I think the shop owner is responsible... I still feel that the shop owner has much to gain, by promoting the hobby, in the case that club does exist. But in the case that a club is involved, both shop owner and club should/need to work together. This attitude of "its not my problem" is hurting this hobby. It sounds like the shop owners could use some help from the business people that are racing at the track. When suggestions are made, often we get the answer “I tried that and it does not work.” The fact is, just like in racing, it is all about getting the combination correct. There is not one golden answer, it is a correct combination for your area, which is different in different parts of the county, or world. What works in Austria, may not work in the area of upstate New Year.
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