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Old 05-04-2006, 01:24 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSpencer
There are more accidents with electric cars and people than with IC cars & people, probably because:-
a) Lots more people race electric.
b) You pay lots of attention when marshalling a 1/8 race..
c) You tend to get better safety measures at IC meetings as a rough rule of thumb.
so why should they be considering slowing us down then when the primary reason there are more accidents in electric is cos theres more of us!that likes saying theres more car crashes today than 60 years ago - there were less cars!! as a safety officer you've probably seen every freak accident going, and i agree 12ths get air but a touring car aint sharp and pointy. plus im pretty sure you'd be paying attention to a mod final!

i don't take my racing that seriously i only bought the two packs for my 3 club events fortnightly and there probably gonna be my main power source for my (yet to be purchased) brushless system when i get to carpet wars in the winter, can't afford much more. if lipo where legal i could've bought the one pack wiv an extra 20 and not have to worry bout it ever again. why neuter the mod classes wiv 4/5 cell when its sposed to be the premier category wiv the top drivers.
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Old 05-04-2006, 05:53 PM   #137
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Here are some thoughts for people to think about.

First, we as RC racers are using batteries not designed spacifically for us to begin with. The major source that uses these nimh batteries is the power tool industry.

Second, if Lipo batteries were really that superior, why hasn't these companies(in the power tool industry) worked to implimenting use of these cells? For they would benifit from them just as (as many claim) the RC industry would. There must be a reason, our cars abuse nimh batteries even harder than power tools do(how long do power tools run on a single charge compared to how long they last in our cars?) and yet the power tool industry are not jumping at this technology.

Finally, until there is actual a long term use of Lipo cells in RC to see if the safety is resolved, jumping into use of these batteries is not even an option in my opinion till they are proven to be as safe.

I just do not see how keeping the voltage at 7.2(or 7.4 for lipo) will help reduce the cost of racing. BRUSHLESS will help because it removes the cost of brushes every week, need for new motors(or armatures) for every event(but will still need to be new motors purchased each year to maintain speed due to improved designs). Lipo will only reduce the need for a discharger, and maybe reduce it to only one battery purchase each year(for each year the newer lipo packs will show improvement in performance just like sub-c cells do now). In order to reduce costs of racing, I feel reducing wear on tires(which is prolly the most expensive portion of racing in any class) will help way more than changing battery style. If the vehicles were lightened up and slowed down, the wear of the tires will be slowed as well which will reduce the costs by not needing to run a new set every run at an event to be competative. The easiest way to slow down the vehicles is to reduce the main power source(look at nascar for example withthe restrictor plate races). People will complain about the cars going slower, but if everyone is going slower the competative side of racing beside the same people on the track(those you constantly compete with currently and not the ones who are faster or slower, for people will still be at the same level wheather they use 4, 5, or 6 cells) will overshadow the actual speed of the cars.
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Old 05-04-2006, 07:14 PM   #138
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I got a LIPO powered Dremel, and man does it whoop on the NIMH one i used to use
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Old 05-04-2006, 07:31 PM   #139
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The power tool industry has been selling Lipo style battery tools since last year. Milwaukee Power tools sells a 28volt set and if you read the reviews you will hear a familar theme, the power is amazing, the battery packs last 3X longer then the 18V packs, power stays strong right to the end of the charge and the tools are lighter. If you want to limit tire expense, then limit tire usage, do what Nascar does in the Busch Series. Limit the number of new sets per race. They have done that at the Reedy Race, no reason it could not be done at other races.
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Old 05-04-2006, 10:47 PM   #140
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This one is from left field, but let's see if this holds water...

The starter class is a 1/18 truck, RTR for about $160.00 USD, for off-road, then off-road tires, and on-road, then foam. This would get them in the hobby and get new blood in the hobby... or for on-road use the Tamiya Spec class, as the starter or low end slow class, and this would run at the club and regional only... After all a newbie would not be heading off the a national event, and if they wanted to stay this route with the mini, then they do have a national. This way you could have a novice class, and expert class.

After all you are looking for a way to control costs, and keep newbies in the hobby... Plus this little 1/18 will give you the speed you need, with simple upgrades, which are not very expensive (at this point).
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Old 05-05-2006, 01:38 AM   #141
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My last post was really just an open ended question,being the fact that people have different budgets,as we all do.

But over the years I have now found myself in a position not justifying (myself) in spending 60 on a set of cells, its just too much.

I guess we all have our set limits in our minds as to how much we are prepared to pay on our racing
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Old 05-05-2006, 07:23 AM   #142
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Ok,look at things from a different angle here,not the main issue but hey,its important enough to mention.

Has cell capacity and technology on motors helped the beginners? No. The crash at higher speeds and break more stuff.

Has cell capacity and technology on motors helped the pros? For sure,they get faster and faster with longer runtime if they need any.

Hello!!! People need to wake up and see the fact that technology,for the beginners is pushing them away. All the begineer wants to do is go fast,we all do. But surely clubs should be ENCOURAGING them to drive slowly.

Im sure some do,but can't help thinking the next 9/10/11 etc year old Tom dick or harry for their start of a racing future is just at the track to fund the designers of their car with the broken parts being an issue from too much speed.

Maybe tourning cars are not the best way to get someone introduced to r/c cars? Mardaves would be much more affordable,but sadly in my eyes they are getting overshadowed by tourning cars,so the beginners have little or no choice.
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Old 05-05-2006, 08:38 AM   #143
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Tamiya kit`s
this is the strating point for beginneers
the hardley sell any now ,it`s all nitro RTR now up & down the park , then under the bed for god know how long , yet the buyer is never introduced in the racing side of it

talking to Ian Knight (maritime runner)
maritime club used to get 4-7 new drivers every year with there xmas tlo1

now they get old timers staying there instead


but this has nothing to do with the thread title has it
if us was down the pub we be talking & bullshitting till the early hours trying to sort this hobby out
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Old 05-05-2006, 11:12 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team
Ok,look at things from a different angle here,not the main issue but hey,its important enough to mention.

Has cell capacity and technology on motors helped the beginners? No. The crash at higher speeds and break more stuff.

Has cell capacity and technology on motors helped the pros? For sure,they get faster and faster with longer runtime if they need any.

Hello!!! People need to wake up and see the fact that technology,for the beginners is pushing them away. All the begineer wants to do is go fast,we all do. But surely clubs should be ENCOURAGING them to drive slowly.

Im sure some do,but can't help thinking the next 9/10/11 etc year old Tom dick or harry for their start of a racing future is just at the track to fund the designers of their car with the broken parts being an issue from too much speed.

Maybe tourning cars are not the best way to get someone introduced to r/c cars? Mardaves would be much more affordable,but sadly in my eyes they are getting overshadowed by tourning cars,so the beginners have little or no choice.
The good point of new technology (lipo / brushless) to keep in mind is there is less initial investment in equipment, and more importantly less time on maintenance, more time for practice and racing - thats the fun part.
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Old 05-05-2006, 12:34 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
Tamiya kit`s
this is the strating point for beginneers
the hardley sell any now ,it`s all nitro RTR now up & down the park , then under the bed for god know how long , yet the buyer is never introduced in the racing side of it

talking to Ian Knight (maritime runner)
maritime club used to get 4-7 new drivers every year with there xmas tlo1

now they get old timers staying there instead


but this has nothing to do with the thread title has it
if us was down the pub we be talking & bullshitting till the early hours trying to sort this hobby out
My point is if TC is to fast, to expensive, then look at something that is not to fast or to expensive. Tamiya spec class, or something like this could be the low cost class, for newbie or experts... Just do not race them together...

Hey, if you think this is expensive, think what it takes to run 1/8 on-road, now that is a costly class,
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Old 05-05-2006, 01:44 PM   #146
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I am an off roader so please take this with a grain of salt...

I think 4 cell is a good idea. I don't think it will make things much less expensive for me (or all the guys at my track that have converted to LiPo) but it would make racing a little more realistic again. The cars are so fast now that racing them is nearly an inhuman skill. Slower cars would offer a little more time to manuver and race each other. It was more like this when I started racing in 1985. Even a Novak 4300 spec class would be neat. The cars are so fast now that a track has to be gigantic to enjoy that speed.

If you want on road to get cheaper, ban foam tires. This is the one and only reason that 1/12th scale participation didn't increase when they went to 4 cell.

I think that the participants of this hobby are more inclined to try this than they admit. Remember 1/10 pan cars? There was nothing faster or simpler yet they went away in favor of touring cars? Just when I thought complexity and cost were what was killing the hobby Touring cars (most complex, heavy, fragile, slow, expensive...) come out and save the hobby from extinction. I didn't see that one coming.

My local club runs carpet in the winter and one of the most fun classes is the F1 spec class. 6cell stick packs and Mabuchi motors. They are slow but the racing is close and drivers that are intimidated by Touring modified can still get in there and run close other cars and learn how to drive. We're just too power hungry to adhere to a spec class where the spec isn't the fastest gear out there.
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Old 05-06-2006, 02:50 AM   #147
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I will always find the slower classes more appealing. Im not into spending 50 pound on a 7 turn motor and skimming it every run. (at the top end of racing)

Good luck to those who do but it's about time people need to realise speed isnt everything in racing.

Yes,it makes it exciting but in todays world of r/c it can be blatent overkill.

Let the world champions battle it out at speeds of near on 60mph and keep the club racer on a more even keel of speed because club racing should be FUN. Not who has the most tuned up motor down the straights.

It seems thesedays there are a LOT of good drivers in stock 27,seperated by either having the money to have a tuned to the limit stock motor,or have the knowledge to tune it themselves. You dont hear many complaining about their cornering,once the cars are dialed its just the speed that seperates them. hit the optimal level of your speed controls punch/rpm output and gearing and theres nothing else you can do to stop the guy with the fastest motor of the day from going past you apart from weaving,lol.

I know thats not always the case but i've seen it a lot of times.

If you have equal cars on the setup for the corners then...obviously the only thing that seperates them is speed and the driver.

Ive raced tamiya f1 car and loved it. Not for its looks,or liking how to set them up,but because it didnt have the equivelent speed or power of a v8 in a mini,lol.

This whole issue of speed/power is something that needs to be addressed,but the only idea I have heard so far is by limiting the power output of the cars to a set level across the playing field.

Fair? I think so.
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Old 05-06-2006, 04:01 AM   #148
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Getting back on track - Japan has gone 4 cell on their Mod class ONLY! The stock class is still 6 cell.
So it doesn't change much apart from mod which in some areas needs life support desperately. Torc scrubbed mod this year due to lack of entries.

Observation on limited bushless in the stock class is that the BL is faster not on sheer speed but on the torque off the corner. Those who have had them in their races have not been happy.

Quote:
Im not into spending 50 pound on a 7 turn motor and skimming it every run. (at the top end of racing)
At the top end of stock racing they are skimming, new brushes and zapping every run. Some have two or more motors that they rotate and two stock motors cost more than one mod.

Maybe Stock needs a capacity cap put on it or only allowing the cells from the previous years list to be used!

In Japan once you have reached a certain skill level, you are promoted out of the stock class and can't go back. Keeps the fresh blood coming through.
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Old 05-06-2006, 04:21 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank N. Furter

At the top end of stock racing they are skimming, new brushes and zapping every run. Some have two or more motors that they rotate and two stock motors cost more than one mod.

Maybe Stock needs a capacity cap put on it or only allowing the cells from the previous years list to be used!

In Japan once you have reached a certain skill level, you are promoted out of the stock class and can't go back. Keeps the fresh blood coming through.
so why can`t there be a sportsman (no sponsered type in this class atall) & expert class in the uk
you find the top 10- 15 drivers do this muti skimming & brushing stuff
guy`s below just want to race & have ago
be cruel to be kind here push the top spot huggers out into there own class or up to 19t
needs some one with a strong backbone to put this idea forward & impletment it but alais there are not any in the position to do anything about it ,but think of a body shell rule though , & they are all there putting there bit in
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Old 05-06-2006, 07:09 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank N. Furter

In Japan once you have reached a certain skill level, you are promoted out of the stock class and can't go back. Keeps the fresh blood coming through.
I did`nt know this ..

How do they rank or track their stock racer`s wins in Japan ?

Most interesting ....
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