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AXON TC10/3

Old 11-10-2023, 07:22 PM
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Race Opt released their base arm design in 2017 on their Frontie FFV3 and T3. It has taken 5-6 years for other manufactures to slowly adopt similar design cues. Kudos to them for thinking outside the box.
Originally Posted by gigaplex
They said Japanese manufacturers. RaceOpt is not Japanese.
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Old 11-10-2023, 10:05 PM
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From the Schumacher Mi5 times (2013) I remember that these material mixed suspensions were really heavy. The geometry with different length lower and upper arm, but still almost vertical steering axis seems fine. So definitely nice to see not everybody goes for the 3 balljoint wheelhub attachment.
As for the damper stays, they look rather upright compared to many new cars out there.
I like the wide bumper mount in the front.
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Old 11-11-2023, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fat500
I am seeing a pattern in the japan mfgs that they are doing a pivot ball hinge pin mix. ( except for mugen).....Is this what works on their tracks or something else.....please chime in.........
It would appear that it is not something that just "works on their tracks".
Half the cars in the top ten of the most recent ISTC worlds (2022) were pins and caster block cars.

1. BRUNO COELHO Xray
2. CHRISTOPHER KRAPP Yokomo - C-HUB
3. AKIO SOBUE Axon - C-HUB
4. ALEXANDER HAGBERG Xray
5. MARC RHEINARD Awesomatix
6. MICHAL ORLOWSKI Schumacher
7. YANNIC PRUEMPER Yokomo - C-HUB
8. RONALD VOLKER Mugen
9. HAYATO ISHIOKA Axon - C-HUB
10. JILLES GROSKAMP Infinity - C-HUB
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Old 11-11-2023, 01:57 AM
  #34  
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Do you have more detailed information about the car and its characteristics?
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Old 11-11-2023, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Which manufacturers? So far I've only seen it on Yokomo and Axon, and historically Axon has been a conversion kit for Yokomo. They probably just inherited that design.
Tamiya, Infinity
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Old 11-11-2023, 06:12 AM
  #36  
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Steering arms and hub carriers are very mtc2 inspired.
(thanks to kentech for the good Mugen picture)
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Old 11-11-2023, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by C van der Hagen
Tamiya, Infinity
Neither of those use a pivot ball hinge pin mix. They're both straight up legacy hinge pin designs.
Lonestar and simple like this.
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Old 11-11-2023, 01:08 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Neither of those use a pivot ball hinge pin mix. They're both straight up legacy hinge pin designs.
So?
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Old 11-11-2023, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by C van der Hagen
So?
So? It's the discussion you dropped into:
Originally Posted by fat500
I am seeing a pattern in the japan mfgs that they are doing a pivot ball hinge pin mix. ( except for mugen).....Is this what works on their tracks or something else.....please chime in.........
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Old 11-11-2023, 03:11 PM
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The Axon has the belts left and right of the spur --> diffs and spool are further off center than on AMX etc. --> inner ball joints need to be spaced out more --> Axon and Yokomo have compensated this with C-Hub like designs. All the other designs (AMX, Xray, Mugen, ARC, Schumacher...) have that long/short A-arms thing due to the inner hinge pins as tightly spaced as possible. So what I would really want to know:

ratio between upper link and lower link length, or camber gain due to that.
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Old 11-11-2023, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DirkW
So? It's the discussion you dropped into:
I'm sorry. I thought this tread was about the Axon TC10/3
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Old 11-11-2023, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by C van der Hagen
I'm sorry. I thought this tread was about the Axon TC10/3
It is, but the question was about the Axon following a trend. There's only one other car (Yokomo) meeting the requirements of that trend (Japanese pivot ball hinge pin mix), and the Axon started out as a conversion kit for it.
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Old 11-11-2023, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by h2e
The Axon has the belts left and right of the spur --> diffs and spool are further off center than on AMX etc. --> inner ball joints need to be spaced out more --> Axon and Yokomo have compensated this with C-Hub like designs. All the other designs (AMX, Xray, Mugen, ARC, Schumacher...) have that long/short A-arms thing due to the inner hinge pins as tightly spaced as possible. So what I would really want to know:

ratio between upper link and lower link length, or camber gain due to that.
I don't think the belt configuration is that big of an influence on pivot ball location. The balls aren't mounted inline with the bulkhead, they're spaced wider, especially on the cars with narrow bulkheads.
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Old 11-12-2023, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
It is, but the question was about the Axon following a trend. There's only one other car (Yokomo) meeting the requirements of that trend (Japanese pivot ball hinge pin mix), and the Axon started out as a conversion kit for it.
Released 2017... 6 years ago.
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Old 11-12-2023, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
I don't think the belt configuration is that big of an influence on pivot ball location. The balls aren't mounted inline with the bulkhead, they're spaced wider, especially on the cars with narrow bulkheads.
Well on the pics above, it's clear to see that the Mugen has the balljoints narrower spaced, than the Axon, probably thanks to the diff/spool being more centralized.
The Yokomo BD12 has the inner balljoints wider spaced than the bulkheads, of course to clear the diff, as you can see on this pic.

Screw spacing shows that the bulkheads are narrower spaced than the lower arms (pictured: BD12)

It might also be that Axon is replicating the hinge pin axis position to not change the geometry properties. Many Tamiya kits were like that, too. Part designs change but the hardpoints of the suspension remain the same. A benefit of the Axon/Yok design is that the topdeck is almost symmetrical.
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