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Old 01-04-2003, 12:40 PM   #46
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Default Gearing in the wrong direction

ixlr8nz;

Try going in the oposite direction with your gearing (higher numbers) I think you will find that the Motor will respond to the lower gearing and still give you the top speed that you need.
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Old 01-04-2003, 03:46 PM   #47
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No thanks,

The straight is 70 metres or in your terms probably about 210ft if there is 3 feet in a metre approx. I'm almost positive that is why the MS was slightly slower than a Hellfire.

You are right when it comes to indoors and small tracks to gear really low but on these huge outdoor tracks different rules apply. I think you need to have a look at some European or Aussie racing results to see that.

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Old 01-05-2003, 12:12 PM   #48
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Default The straight is 70 metres or in your terms probably about 210ft

ixlr8nz;

That's HUGE. (70m = 229ft) The straight on our local 1/8 Nitro track is only 170ft. Can't get any of the electric guys to race there because of the size. I think that for best performance any Motor should be geared somewhere between the Max power and Max efficency.

It always amazes me how things can be so different from having a little water seperating them.

Last edited by popsracer; 01-05-2003 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 01-05-2003, 12:13 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by ixlr8nz
No thanks,

The straight is 70 metres or in your terms probably about 210ft if there is 3 feet in a metre approx. I'm almost positive that is why the MS was slightly slower than a Hellfire.

You are right when it comes to indoors and small tracks to gear really low but on these huge outdoor tracks different rules apply. I think you need to have a look at some European or Aussie racing results to see that.
Popsracer is correct. You are gearing the MS in the wrong direction. Just because the straight is very long, doesn't necessarily mean you go that tall on the final ratio. The MS is designed as an rpm motor which means your final ratio should be lower (higher number). As recommended by Trinity, it should be geared two teeth (pinion) lower than the P2k2.
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Old 01-05-2003, 03:30 PM   #50
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Its sounds like a boring track I know, but it is actually quiet a good track and they race everything on there 1/5 down to 1/12th at times. Touring Mod is my favourite class there, I either race an 8x2 at 7.5 or a 9X2 at 6.9. for a 4 min race.

Have you read that trinity says that the MS goes the fastest with the serrations on eg how it comes out of the box. I find this a little bit hard to believe, but don't have a dyno so can't compare to fully worn in brushes.

Yes, I have read that it should be geared about 2 teeth lower than a p2k2, but on our track some of my rivals would most likely be gearing there p2k2's at 5.4 or so. When you get down to this sort of gearing, the air temp makes a difference to what gear ratio you run.

I will report my results at the National Champs happening in late Jan

Last edited by ixlr8nz; 01-05-2003 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 01-05-2003, 06:47 PM   #51
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Default Monster Stock tuning

Guys;

I now have 2 Monster Stocks and have put them both on my Robi Dyno. I did a little experimenting with springs and found that a Trinity Red spring on both sides makes more power with only a slight loss in RPM. As I get more time, I will try some different Brush combinations to see if anything can be gained there.

Now for a NEW question;

Has anybody heard of UN-winding some turns from a Stock Motor to make the Arm a lower number of turns?

Last edited by popsracer; 01-05-2003 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 01-05-2003, 09:07 PM   #52
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I agree with ixlr8nz. Here at my track with the 213 straight, I had to toss on a larger pinion to drop my lap times with the Monster Stock. Actually around 6.1. So goin my "Trinity" instructions doesn't alway apply. Yall seem to treat it like a bible or something.

Anyways, on a side note... small track. Racing yesterday with Bubba at Tidewater. We both ended up in the Amain. I lucked out and finished 2nd. Not sure where he finished. It's a pretty small track indeed. Fastest lap times for me was around 5.1 sec. Now here's the kicker... I ran the same Monster Stock that I run at Durham. Gearing? 9.4! Tire dia? 54-55mm. I had no problems keeping up with anybody. I think I had more punch than most. Just trying to find a good spot on the drivers stand to race! I'll try next time to race on the floor where I practiced. Kinda hard to see the whole track from the stand. Especially when the stand is right up on the straight.

Blah blah blah.... I think the Monster is a great motor. I'll try to start with gearing at 7.0 for Durham. Then time it against 6.1. I'll let yall know next weekend. We'll see if the instructions are correct.... for a track this size.....

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Old 01-05-2003, 11:42 PM   #53
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Default WOW

KilRuf;

Quote:
Fastest lap times for me was around 5.1 sec.
Man that is one small fast track. Most of the parking lot tracks that we race at out here are in the 16 to 18 second range for a fast lap. With that I currently have a 7.67 FDR in my car. Anything taller and the windings were burning. I may try something closer to 8.0 this next weekend and see how the top speed is. (with the Monster)
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by KilRuf
I agree with ixlr8nz. Here at my track with the 213 straight, I had to toss on a larger pinion to drop my lap times with the Monster Stock. Actually around 6.1. So goin my "Trinity" instructions doesn't alway apply. Yall seem to treat it like a bible or something.

Anyways, on a side note... small track. Racing yesterday with Bubba at Tidewater. We both ended up in the Amain. I lucked out and finished 2nd. Not sure where he finished. It's a pretty small track indeed. Fastest lap times for me was around 5.1 sec. Now here's the kicker... I ran the same Monster Stock that I run at Durham. Gearing? 9.4! Tire dia? 54-55mm. I had no problems keeping up with anybody. I think I had more punch than most. Just trying to find a good spot on the drivers stand to race! I'll try next time to race on the floor where I practiced. Kinda hard to see the whole track from the stand. Especially when the stand is right up on the straight.

Blah blah blah.... I think the Monster is a great motor. I'll try to start with gearing at 7.0 for Durham. Then time it against 6.1. I'll let yall know next weekend. We'll see if the instructions are correct.... for a track this size.....

Jimmy Mac
yea purty brutal saturday nite. q-3rd/47laps 5:04 plenty quick 8.3 final ratio 56mm tire dia. on xxx-s
there was a lot of people at the grand opening turned some 5.1 fast laps but it seamed I was on my lid alot in the main. Tight and quick 5 second laps stuck against the boards easy to loose a lap. Very hard to get a clean run. Jimmy I ended up 4th. Overall had a blast and will be back next week..........Bubba
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Old 01-06-2003, 04:14 PM   #55
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pops - when you say its burning the windings, what do you mean? Is the motor totally bin material or is it just hot? I have found my hellfire gets much much hotter than the MS does. But that only means that it will slow the car latter in the race. Thats why I use an onboard fan
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Old 01-06-2003, 07:54 PM   #56
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Default burning the windings

ixlr8nz;

When I first started running this Motor I had a 7.2 FDR in my car per the "Gear-up" advice that everyone seems to have.
The Motor smelled like something was burning when it came off the track and the windings are discolored slightly. The Brushes and Com always look perfect, with NO burning or signs of overheating. My Friends Monster Stock was geared 6.8 in his Losi XXXS and it burned the Armature tag right off because the ARM got so hot. His brushes looked OK too.
Since I changed the gearing to 7.67 FDR this same Motor runs cooler and is just as fast. I'm going to try 7.8 to 8.0 FDR this weekend and see how it performs. On my dyno it still shows the same numbers as when it was new.
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Old 01-06-2003, 08:01 PM   #57
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Yeah, 5.1 is pretty quick. And very easy to be left behind a lap or 5. I had it bad at the start of the main. But lucked out near the end. Anyhow, I'll probably be back up in 2 weeks. Gonna also try 1/12th next time with a Monster. I just have no idea what to gear it for that track. Basically I have no idea on HOW to gear a 1/12th.. haha.

Anyhow, Durham lap times are between 18-22 seconds pending on layout. Rosewood/Goldsboro are 18.5 for a fastest lap. 19's for average. With a MS. Like I said, I'll try Durham this weekend with the Monster Stock. Starting at 7.0 final with the TC3. Then gear around that for comparison.

Blah blah blah Catch yall Laterz

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Old 01-07-2003, 06:22 AM   #58
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jimmy thats cool looking forward to your return. Not bad for 1st race,hope things get a little better.pops hard to belive ms runs at such a high final ratio 8.3 and is real strong the oval takes so much of the new building we could set up a road course and incorperate the oval as part the track would be a lot bigger for now its all we got in this area indoors. jimmy it snowed last nite u get any down in carolinain the 30's today tomorrow in the 60's crazy weather on the east coast right now i also ran the new matrix 10r tq motor not quite as quick but still strong ran 7.99 on it . time to go to work got to make that entry fee money................
........see ya! Bubba jimmy not sure but brian geared 1/12 at25/98 he qual. 2nd sure he can help U out with 1/12 gear. Latter........B

Last edited by bubbaicm; 01-07-2003 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 01-07-2003, 02:22 PM   #59
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Default Re: burning the windings

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
ixlr8nz;

When I first started running this Motor I had a 7.2 FDR in my car per the "Gear-up" advice that everyone seems to have.
The Motor smelled like something was burning when it came off the track and the windings are discolored slightly. The Brushes and Com always look perfect, with NO burning or signs of overheating. My Friends Monster Stock was geared 6.8 in his Losi XXXS and it burned the Armature tag right off because the ARM got so hot. His brushes looked OK too.
Since I changed the gearing to 7.67 FDR this same Motor runs cooler and is just as fast. I'm going to try 7.8 to 8.0 FDR this weekend and see how it performs. On my dyno it still shows the same numbers as when it was new.


ummm.... ive been running my XXXS GP with 6.8 ratio without problems for a long time.
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Old 01-08-2003, 08:19 AM   #60
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Default Re: Re: burning the windings

Quote:
Originally posted by maxboost
ummm.... ive been running my XXXS GP with 6.8 ratio without problems for a long time.
our track is only 138' total
running surface 60' straight thats why were running up in the 8's
final ratio. been to other tracks with straights longer than our whole trackwill fit in. Just do a little homework u will be fine
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