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Old 04-21-2006, 04:14 PM   #1
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Can someone please help me with traction roll. My little brother has a tc4 and we race carpet oval. Everytime he goes into the corner it just rolls over. what is causing this please help. we are running copper rear and purple front springs. double pink all around besides double pink orange right front. please help

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Old 04-21-2006, 04:36 PM   #2
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I would put a swaybar in the rear and add a little heavior spring or oil. I run oval on asphat and used to roll until I add the swaybars front and rear heavior shock oil. Hope this helps.
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:46 PM   #3
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ok i have another question where do you thikn the shocks should be mounted. there are 4 holes on the shock tower. Should theey be in the outside or the inside hole of the tower, and what will the reverse cause? please help, have to have it ready by the morning.

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Old 04-21-2006, 04:48 PM   #4
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Too Much Traction! I am joking but really its too much grip. Simple things to try first. How much traction compound are you puting on the fronts? Don't do the whole tire. Leave the hard outer ring untreated. How big are the tires? On carpet I run at 57mm to start. I like them at 56mm. Round the outer edges off also. Next, if the track has a lot of grip, clean the tires after every run. I have been using motor spray and a clean rag. This is what works for me, and I have had lots of issues with traction rolling. One last thing that may be contibuting is a high roll center. Try lowering the roll center by removing shims. I dont race oval .... so my advice may be useless but I don't think so.
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:52 PM   #5
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OKay thats what i thought too about the froont tires so i stopped putting compound on the right front, but it almost looks like it just goes around the corner on the right side wheels for a sec or too then flips. the tires are about 55mm. a local racer told me to use motor spray so i tryed that. i thikn its how the shocks are set really, but i dont know much, thats why im asking
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:57 PM   #6
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put 1mm spacers under the lower pivot blocks front and rear (both front and rear of the car and both front and rear blocks) this will get rid of your traction roll. or you could try taking some out the from under the inner camber link ballstud if there is any.

hope this helps
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:50 PM   #7
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heres what i think hapens, if you lay the shocks down(top mounting screw twards the closest hole to the middle of the car) is gives the car mores grip, so the first thing i would do is straighten the shocks out(more twards the outermost hole) and lower the car,and also stiffen the shocks. but do only one of these adjustments at a time untill you find the appriote feeling,

the more you lay the front shocks down(top twards the middle of the car) the more steering response you will get, so if it turns in hard then straighen the front shocks out(top twards to outer most hole) and it will reduce the the sensetivity of entrance.

again only do one adjustment at a time until the desired feeeling is found

try this first, just use less traction wash,

hope this helps
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Old 04-21-2006, 06:24 PM   #8
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i have a ? as well

ok what is roll center and do we want alot of it or very little of it?

does it deal with center of gravity?

???

also with the camber links

what happens when the two middle ones (inner left camber ball stud and inner right chamber ball stud) are lower?


PLEASE can some one fill me in
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Old 04-21-2006, 06:53 PM   #9
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I'd try more camber. Maybe your rim is digging into the carpet.
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:02 PM   #10
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Try making your track wider by putting 1 or 2mm shims between your wheel and hex.
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:07 PM   #11
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lower the ride height
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:37 PM   #12
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Put a later of thin CA around the outer edge of the tire. From the rim all the way to the running surface. Use less dope. Try to mount the body as low as possible. You will be surprised how much of a difference this makes.

The roll center is the imaginary point at which the car pivots from side to side.
If you have a low roll center, you will increase side bite because more of the mass of the car will be above the roll center. I you raise the roll center, you will have less side bite because less mass will be above this point. The roll center works hand in hand with the center of mass(weight). If you were to strap a chunk of lead similar to the shape of a refrigerator into the bed of your pickup truck( standing up) and went around a sharp corner, the mass of the "refrigerator" would be above the the center of mass in the truck. This would generate a lot of side bite and possibly tip the truck over. If you put the same "refrigerator" laying down in the bed, you would generate a lot less side bite. So you can raise your roll center, or lower your center of weight. If you have anything mounted to the upper deck in the car, put it down on the main chassis.
By the way, the roll center is most easily controlled by the angle of the upper suspension links. It also has to do with the angle of the lower arms, but this is a little more difficult to change although it produces more change.
As a general rule, lowering the inner ballstud or raising the outer end of the link will raise the roll center at the end you are working on.
It is rather difficult to explain without reference drawings.
Some one else suggested putting a 1mm spacer above the arm mounts. As long as you keep your ride height consistant this will help out.


Lower all moveble mass on car, and if you are still rolling do what agower said earlier.
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonWorks
Put a later of thin CA around the outer edge of the tire. From the rim all the way to the running surface. Use less dope. Try to mount the body as low as possible. You will be surprised how much of a difference this makes.

The roll center is the imaginary point at which the car pivots from side to side.
If you have a low roll center, you will increase side bite because more of the mass of the car will be above the roll center. I you raise the roll center, you will have less side bite because less mass will be above this point. The roll center works hand in hand with the center of mass(weight). If you were to strap a chunk of lead similar to the shape of a refrigerator into the bed of your pickup truck( standing up) and went around a sharp corner, the mass of the "refrigerator" would be above the the center of mass in the truck. This would generate a lot of side bite and possibly tip the truck over. If you put the same "refrigerator" laying down in the bed, you would generate a lot less side bite. So you can raise your roll center, or lower your center of weight. If you have anything mounted to the upper deck in the car, put it down on the main chassis.
By the way, the roll center is most easily controlled by the angle of the upper suspension links. It also has to do with the angle of the lower arms, but this is a little more difficult to change although it produces more change.
As a general rule, lowering the inner ballstud or raising the outer end of the link will raise the roll center at the end you are working on.
It is rather difficult to explain without reference drawings.
Some one else suggested putting a 1mm spacer above the arm mounts. As long as you keep your ride height consistant this will help out.


Lower all moveble mass on car, and if you are still rolling do what agower said earlier.

so center of gravity is used during the the movement or the act that is taken during the roll center's effect right

so basicly if you want to keep all 4 wheels on the ground, you would want low roll center?
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Old 04-21-2006, 11:14 PM   #14
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To keep all 4 wheels on the ground you want a low center of gravity(mass). If you cannot lower the center of gravity any more(moving weight lower on the car) then you raise the roll center. Changing the roll center is a mechanical adjustment, changing the center of gravity is a matter of moving weight around.

Just to repeat, add spacers above pivot blocks or lower inner ball stud height. These will both RAISE the roll center giving the car less roll in corners.

Remember to check ride height after changes.
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Old 04-21-2006, 11:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonWorks
To keep all 4 wheels on the ground you want a low center of gravity(mass). If you cannot lower the center of gravity any more(moving weight lower on the car) then you raise the roll center. Changing the roll center is a mechanical adjustment, changing the center of gravity is a matter of moving weight around.

Just to repeat, add spacers above pivot blocks or lower inner ball stud height. These will both RAISE the roll center giving the car less roll in corners.

Remember to check ride height after changes.

like keep all 4 wheels on the ground while cornering
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