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Old 04-22-2006, 11:56 AM   #16
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no yopu do not want to put spacers under the blocks or take any out of the top links,this WILL make it worse.
traction roll only happens entering a corner.
if you do what has said above you will tractioon roll more because yopu will have more turn in.
you want to add spacers under top link or take them out under the blocks or soften front springs down one grade.
you wnt the car to have less turn in not more.
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Old 04-22-2006, 12:39 PM   #17
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Correct me if I'm wrong .... I thought you have to add shims under the ballstuds to lower the roll center. To my understanding, the camber linkages have to be parallel to the A arms to achieve optimum turning ability. Please advise the confused soul here.

Thanks in advance,
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Old 04-22-2006, 12:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bukil
Correct me if I'm wrong .... I thought you have to add shims under the ballstuds to lower the roll center. To my understanding, the camber linkages have to be parallel to the A arms to achieve optimum turning ability. Please advise the confused soul here.

Thanks in advance,
Mark
addings shims under the balljoint on the upper arm will lower roll center.
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:04 PM   #19
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What is the difference between a balljoint and a ballstud ? I'm a little confused. Sorry for the noob question.
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bukil
What is the difference between a balljoint and a ballstud ? I'm a little confused. Sorry for the noob question.
no soz this my bad,i meant the ballstud on the upper arm but on the inner part,if you add spacers under the balljoint on the outside of the top arm this will raise roll center.
balljoint/stud is both the asame
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf racer
no soz this my bad,i meant the ballstud on the upper arm but on the inner part,if you add spacers under the balljoint on the outside of the top arm this will raise roll center.
balljoint/stud is both the asame
I dont know if we are on the same page here. As far as I know, I have no upper arm in my FT TC4. I only have those camber linkages that connect to a ballstud and a hub. So if I add shims under those ballstuds where the camber linkages connect to, I lower the roll center right? Thanks for bearing with me.
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bukil
I dont know if we are on the same page here. As far as I know, I have no upper arm in my FT TC4. I only have those camber linkages that connect to a ballstud and a hub. So if I add shims under those ballstuds where the camber linkages connect to, I lower the roll center right? Thanks for bearing with me.
yep upper arm is the camber link,now you have 2 studs on it,the outer one which is on the hub and the other on the bulhead which is inner.
now if you put spacers under the inner part of the top link you will lower roll center if you put spacers under the outer part this will raise the roll center
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf racer
yep upper arm is the camber link,now you have 2 studs on it,the outer one which is on the hub and the other on the bulhead which is inner.
now if you put spacers under the inner part of the top link you will lower roll center if you put spacers under the outer part this will raise the roll center
THANK YOU!
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bukil
THANK YOU!
is ok.
when traction rolling tho this occurs when you turn in and turn only.
if you stiffen the car this will aid the turn in you want the car to actually roll going into the corner.
traction roll isnt because the car is rolling ie body roll,thru spriongs being soft but actually rolling bc a combination of too much grip and to stiff a suspesion.
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Old 04-22-2006, 02:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf racer
is ok.
when traction rolling tho this occurs when you turn in and turn only.
if you stiffen the car this will aid the turn in you want the car to actually roll going into the corner.
traction roll isnt because the car is rolling ie body roll,thru spriongs being soft but actually rolling bc a combination of too much grip and to stiff a suspesion.
you should read the original question the guy is using foam tires you are correct in what your saying with rubber tires grip roll is generated from side bite of a rubber tire so you would tend to lay the top of the shock in towards the centre line this will in give more traction but it will make the reaction to the corner more progressive so you will tend to find the car is through the corner before the wheels lift up foam tires are a little diffrent you may want to try stiffning the oil and spring on the front and widen the front track width by about 0.5 to 1mm per side and less front additive.
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Old 04-22-2006, 03:07 PM   #26
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Try lowering ride hieght. Same thing happened to me.
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Old 04-22-2006, 03:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuey
you should read the original question the guy is using foam tires you are correct in what your saying with rubber tires grip roll is generated from side bite of a rubber tire so you would tend to lay the top of the shock in towards the centre line this will in give more traction but it will make the reaction to the corner more progressive so you will tend to find the car is through the corner before the wheels lift up foam tires are a little diffrent you may want to try stiffning the oil and spring on the front and widen the front track width by about 0.5 to 1mm per side and less front additive.
why would your set up knowledge change from what tires you use?
fair enuff i guess foams give more traction but still softening the suspesnion or making more progrive will still have the same effect as rubber?
widening the car makes it also more progresive if you narrow it you would still get very sharp turn in.
less front additive works well.
couldnt you go to a harder foam?
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Old 04-22-2006, 03:32 PM   #28
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These are the things that have worked for me with traction rolling with foam tires.. in no particular order

Reduce tire diameter
softer springs
lay in the shocks on the tower
lower the lower arm hinge pin mounts
reduce front caster
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Old 04-22-2006, 03:55 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf racer
why would your set up knowledge change from what tires you use?
fair enuff i guess foams give more traction but still softening the suspesnion or making more progrive will still have the same effect as rubber?
widening the car makes it also more progresive if you narrow it you would still get very sharp turn in.
less front additive works well.
couldnt you go to a harder foam?
it wouldn't but there are diffrent types of traction roll for example foam tires generate basic grip were the car doen't need to roll to get traction so you can run the car stiffer and still get it to turn and the tires don't tend to misshape as much as rubber tires. rubber tires tend to fold under as you corner and its the edge of the tire that causes the traction roll thats why glueing the side walls helps.

trf racer next time you race on carpet give it a go set the car up with a rubber tire setup on and then put foams on and see how soggy the car feels through the corners trust me it's not nice.
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Old 04-23-2006, 07:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuey
it wouldn't but there are diffrent types of traction roll for example foam tires generate basic grip were the car doen't need to roll to get traction so you can run the car stiffer and still get it to turn and the tires don't tend to misshape as much as rubber tires. rubber tires tend to fold under as you corner and its the edge of the tire that causes the traction roll thats why glueing the side walls helps.

trf racer next time you race on carpet give it a go set the car up with a rubber tire setup on and then put foams on and see how soggy the car feels through the corners trust me it's not nice.
yeah i see,isnt gluing sidewalls just to cause more slip and yes to stiffen so they dont flex under the tire.
also pure grip from additive causes this,i run no glue on front tyres in early rounds then when grip comes up glue out wall and less additive.
stuey=stuart rand?
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