Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road
Why NO Top Shaft Tourers? >

Why NO Top Shaft Tourers?

Why NO Top Shaft Tourers?

Reply

Old 04-19-2006, 02:55 AM
  #31  
Tech Master
iTrader: (32)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 1,439
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

The best shaft car I ever had was a TA02. It went from an onroad car to a rally car and back to an oroad car. The best money ever spent.
JoeyE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 05:11 AM
  #32  
Tech Adept
 
Racingbod85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bromley, Kent, UK
Posts: 186
Default

A magazine in the UK did a test of SD vs BD. down hill, no pinion, same weight SD wins 5 from 5 - shows smoother more efficient drivetrain. next straight acceleration shootout, same gearing, same stock motor - SD wins 5 from 5. next mod motor acceleration test BD wins 5 from 5. the torque of the mod just didn't allow the shaft chassis to settle and it couldn't get off the line. whereas the belt just shoved all the weight back and off we go!! it shows at my local track. for stock and 19t shafties are right up there but belts rule mod. unfortunately cos the premiere competitions are always mod, companies are gonna concentrate on developing the belt drives and shafts are gonna be let down by their ageing suspension setup as the years progress.
Racingbod85 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 05:54 AM
  #33  
ark
Tech Addict
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 703
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

my two cents... belt driven cars have an advantage over shaft in the way which the relationship in the motor is to the chassis.
If you hold a belt drive car in one hand and accelerate you can feel the torque from the motor rock the car back and forth. If you do the same to a shaft, it rocks from side to side.
This is magnified very much especially if you have a high rpm modified in the car.
So the way to look at it is if the motor rotates on the same axis as the wheels are turning, then there is more symmetry in the power application. The ideal would be a shaft drive with a motor positioned like a belt car! Cause a shaft driveline does rotate freer than a belt.

nuff said now.
ark is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 06:23 AM
  #34  
Tech Adept
 
Chancellor6630's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Queen City of the south
Posts: 122
Since we are on the topic of Shaft V.S. Belt... just wanna ask becoz iam a newbie myself... Which amongst the two is best at drifting? They say shaft because the inertia created from a drift can apply unecesary stress on the belt reducing its being efficient but some say belted are better than shafted because of its smooth drive train making it faster during a drift. Obviously its a contradictory statement.
Chancellor6630 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 07:06 AM
  #35  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (14)
 
TimPotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Boynton Beach Fl > Randoph NJ
Posts: 7,481
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Actaully I believe Marc R won in 2004 driving a 415, the previous winner was Surikarn piloting a 414, and before that it was a Yokomo belted car with Hara at the wheel...



Originally Posted by Faiz
its like digging up the ol' grave, shaft vs belt....

why dont you ask Surikarn first?
he's the latest world champ driving EVO4 in 2004 for Tamiya Squad, I didn't know whether today Tamiya still afford Evo4
TimPotter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 07:33 AM
  #36  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (5)
 
rayhuang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Posts: 6,511
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by robk
Just get a Tommy Kramer Edition LCG Yokomo Sd... it's magic

Ahhh-beat me to it!! The TKE LCG Yok is ridiculousely fast, but not just in terms of pure rip-they made it handle awesome too. But-yeah-the car has that shaft drive rip and thats an advantage when you get the cars handling right.

A good old Pro4 or TC3 in the right hands will still be a force to be reckoned with.
rayhuang is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 07:39 AM
  #37  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
seaball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,304
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by rayhuang
If you have any poo-fling it now!!
guilty.
seaball is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 10:22 AM
  #38  
Tech Regular
 
tc4kid191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: What is OUR world is coming to??
Posts: 465
Default

The belt guys are paying the shaft guys to stop winning
tc4kid191 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 11:46 AM
  #39  
Tech Fanatic
 
b-man777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MA.
Posts: 942
Default belt vs shaft sedans

hi all:so are you all saying shaft drive sedans are better for stock and 19t and belt drive sedans are better for mod.?also does driving style factor into weather you choose a shaft or belt drive car?thanks for the info
b-man777 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 12:57 PM
  #40  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
seaball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,304
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Post and i said i'd never post on this topic...

this debate has gone round and round, and ultimately it is the parts surrounding the drivetrain that make the bigger difference. setup, durability, and available tuning options are far greater factors in determining the competitiveness of a chassis.

right now it seems that the belt cars are being paid more attention to. therefore, modern advances have been passed along to them such as short arms, high efficiency belts, diff height adjustments, top loading diffs, etc. if there were 10 manufacturers working on shaft cars, they would be better.

here are some necessary things the next level shaft car should have:

- low friction gear material
- lower internal drive ratio: especially for stock where pinions are large anyway
- outdrive bearings that can take an axial load: since the diff gear tries to walk away from the pinion under load.
- aluminum outdrives: to keep the gear mesh as precise as possible and to facilitate the blade style pincusions.
- adjustable diff height: via pillows similar to a 12th scale. the input shaft will of course rise/lower to match.
- shorter arms: like xray, corally, etc. that appears a good length as of right now.
- better ackermann curve: since the shaft/gear cases get in the way, alot of the shaft cars have a crappy ackermann curve to clear everything and still get enough steering throw.
- more forward weight distribution: the newer generation cars are moving the cells forward and it is working. especially on carpet.

well that's a start, anway. who wants to volunteer to make it now?
seaball is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 01:05 PM
  #41  
Tech Elite
 
ChadCapece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CofC
Posts: 3,313
Default

Originally Posted by justin lessard
two words...torque steer,shaft cars have torque steer which makes them a handful in mod,belts are smoother,and in general faster

long story short:BELTS ARE BETTER
Have you ever even owned a shaft driven car?

A slight droop adjustment cancels out the torque steer that is ONLY seen in low turn modified racing.
ChadCapece is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 01:26 PM
  #42  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (33)
 
Jack Smash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,947
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

I think the reason the belts are starting to dominate over the shafts is due to the fact you can get the polar moment of inertia much smaller on a belt car than a shaft car. Most belts are offset toward the motorside which allows the battery (heaviest single item in an electric car) to be moved closer to the centerline of the car.
Jack Smash is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 01:42 PM
  #43  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
 
housey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 232
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

its clear that shaftys are very competative in 27/23/19, and they are always going to be one of the best options in lower power classes, but i dont see how fancy diff height adjustments and other small things like that will ever override the fudamental issues that shaftys have in low turn applications.

as much as people try to argue it, i dont see u can simply tune out torque steer, and the issues concerning chassis flex are always going to be present. and introducing diff height adjustments into shaft cars seems highly complicated for very little benefit.

now that mod racing is moving to new speeds, i doubt that shaft drive cars will ever be the force they once were, but as i said before, in the stock classes, they could well be the advantage.
housey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 02:08 PM
  #44  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
seaball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,304
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

true. there is no way to truly counter the torque steer, w/o finding a way to mount the motor 90* to the way it is now in a shaft car.

but for lower powered racing, torque steer should not be an issue. it may be detectable, but it should not be an issue. given that most racers never see a mod motor under competitive circumstances, i am waiting for a car directly marketed toward stock racing.
seaball is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2006, 02:29 PM
  #45  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
 
housey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 232
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

i find it strange that noone ever mentions the yoke LCG SD, that (from looking at japanese etc results) is an awesome car for stock racing. yet when people talk about the best shafty, they always go on about pro4's etc. give the LCG a look in people.

and as some guys already said, the TKE SD, iv seen pictures and it looks very very cool. has anyone out there got more details on this car please???
housey is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service