oldfool

Yes. That would be your flavor of GT12.

GT = GT bodies. 12 = 1/12th scale.

mrreet2001

iTrader: (9)

Don't see how that's any different than the track(s) running 25.5 on 2s or any other motor variation... and some tracks are currently running open 21.5 on foams. Like I said running a GT style body is the ONLY consistent rule in the US right now... well until Tony threw his variant of GT-12 into the mix.

f1larry

iTrader: (22)

As the title of this thread reads GT12-RT, I believe what we are talking about is the growing class that most are running using 1/12 pan car with rubber tires, USGT FT 21.5 motor and a GT body. That is the intent of the class. Any track can do what they want with the class and call it what they want but the class that is trying to become a standard class across the country it is GT12R.
The US nationals just ran this class, snowbirds is running this class and many others are as well.

Just saying, not sure why everyone has to try and change everything when this new class is working the way it is. If you want to go faster mess with foam tires and use a high downforce body then run one of the many other 1/12 scale classes (21.5 open, 17.5, 13.5, or Mod) Leave GT12R alone.

Greg Holford

iTrader: (1)

Just saying, not sure why everyone has to try and change everything when this new class is working the way it is. If you want to go faster mess with foam tires and use a high downforce body then run one of the many other 1/12 scale classes (21.5 open, 17.5, 13.5, or Mod) Leave GT12R alone.[/QUOTE]


This is what we have done. GT12R is the largest group. We tried open gearing for a little more speed, but it didn't work out so 17.5 on foam has made a comeback. There have been a lot of new racers enter the hobby due to the rubber tire and spec rules that make it easier to understand, easier to get the right gear and know that others are running essentially the same stuff so driving and setup play a bigger role.

TheBeave

iTrader: (6)

So far, about the only thing that is established is that GT12-RT is a growing class. I know we've had a good showing of it at our local track, I'm sure our track owner is glad to see the increased attendance. I would love to keep running the class but, I feel like, as a collective, we're not setting ourselves up for growth and success of the class. You can take a VTA car half-way across the nation and not have to worry about the rules, same goes for many other classes. If we want to keep the class successful, then we need to settle on a set list of rules and really establish the class. Below are some things that I feel like a lot of people are in agreeance on and some notes on obvious simple things needed for the class.

1s - ESC Blinky (Standard for all 1/12 classes)
SJT Rubber Tire
3mm Ride Height Minimum
GT-Style Body
Minimum Weight, we currently run 730g with open 21.5.
172mm width maximum (Standard for all 1/12 classes)
The class should be designed to be entry friendly and as cost effective as possible, the more rules we implement the more expensive the class gets.

My observations from reading/listening to others talk about motors: We all know some motors are faster than others, I don't think fixed gearing will do anything but start a money/motor war, this could only cause buckets of tires to be trued for optimum rollout. A locked spec motor causes similar money wars as not all spec motors are 100% identical, once again rollout is king and how much money do you want to spend on tires for an entry class. We've tested a few different motors in open 21.5, they're very similar. And, if we needed more rpm we have the option to turn up the timing, vice versa for torque.

If we can collectively select a motor choice, then I think the weight would be pretty simple to select. Obviously the heaviest 21.5 on the market is the USGT motor, add an extra 20g to accommodate the extra motor weight, total 750g and there's the class weight and motor selection. Leave it open motor, let people do what they want and drop it down to 730g.

Just my thoughts. The sooner we can get ahead of this the better the class will be.

Greg Holford

iTrader: (1)

TheBeave, I agree that a set of rules for the class would help even things out at the different tracks as they all have their own that they are running by. What you have listed above works well at our track except we are at 750 gram min and run only USGT motor or Reedy 21.5. We weighed both and the Reedy came in 25 grams heavier, but is $20 something cheaper. With fixed gearing of 51-78 there is no difference in speed among 20+ cars. Open gearing didn't really yield anything different but may be a tenth or two, but I could see the need for it due to track size.

Maybe a fixed spur size and open pinion so a driver could get a set of gears and know they will work at any track they choose?

I kinda like the 750 gram min as some kits are heavier and others lighter. Gives a new guy the chance to tune by shedding weight and doesn't show a preference for one kit over another so much.

I really hope this class sticks around and grows. I got back in after fifteen years because of the rubber tire option and my son who's 27 now having fond memories of going to the track.

old_dude

iTrader: (1)

The reason we went open gear was all platforms couldn't accommodate the ratio we felt was right. We were looking at 56/72 (128 total and that is important to know) and it didn't fit on at least 2 brands I believe. So we went open gear and there aren't any complaints with that. Ratios are crazy though with the USGT spec motor with ratios around 1.1.

Kruss45

I’ve been experimenting with the USGT motor in my A12 on rubber tires and what I’ve experienced is it is like driving with an anchor on the back of the car. I’m currently geared at 58 spur 55 pinion which is a little under geared but I’m working my way up closer to 1:1. The biggest difference between the USGT motor and the HW g4 I was using is the weight gain. The pros of the USGT motor is that I don’t have to work out what timing is best but the weight sucks.

old_dude

iTrader: (1)

But it is the same for everyone.

mrreet2001

iTrader: (9)

/\/\/\/\/\/\ THIS!! /\/\/\/\/\/\

simple

iTrader: (2)

For some people - its unfulfilling unless you can pull away from all the other cars with a noted advantage.

TonysScrews

iTrader: (13)

I understand your guy's point about the GT body. And hopefully we can get there as we build up the 12th scale class here in central NJ. When we heard about the GT12 class from the folks that run 12th scale at 360 and 180 Raceways, we were very interested. However, the black CRC carpet at Hobbytown in Toms River, NJ is very old, worn, dirty and sees a ton of traffic on it. Grip is Low-Low compared to a track like 180 where it is High grip. But we were very interested in a class that utilized the USGT 21.5 fixed timing motor since most guys that ran at Jackson Raceway had their USGT cars parked for the winter (the only place to run USGT in the winter is at 360 or 180 or some other place out in PA that has an indoor asphalt track). Most of the guys running in Brian Boyce's "Jersey RC Racing Promotions" events are all here in central NJ and traveling to 360 or 180 is just too far on a regular basis. And the last place that ran a successful 12th scale program in Central NJ was American Hobbies in Englishtown, NJ back in the mid 1980's to mid 1990's (I ran 12th scale back then with the older Tony P and a bunch of Trinity team guys ran there).

This GT12 thread was the closest thing I could find where you guys are running various 12th scale chassis's with that motor and using either rubber or foam tires. There was a lot of info here on gearing, rollout, etc. So why I posted on here. I'm certainly not here to high-jack your thread. The LMP bodies offer us the downforce and improved grip needed to run on the Hobbytown CRC carpet. One of the guys ran his GT body with SXT Max Grip on the tires and he struggled. For now I've been referring to our class as GT12-LMP (GT for the USGT motor). We have a total of 17 different guys that have ran so far in this class. And we know of at least another 7-8 building or wanting cars. If we can get 25 folks running a single class, that's HUGE. We had 21 Euro Trucks last Thursday that allowed us to have an A, B ,C and D main. And we are already organizing a group to bring the GT12-LMP cars to 180 Raceway in two weeks for Slowbirds. I see this as a positive for 12th scale in general as many of us already have discussed having a second car built for GT12 (as you guys run it) or having the option to convert these cars to GT12. So I hope you guys welcome us.

Kruss45

when it comes to the choice of motor you would be right that it is the same for everyone we’ve got 3-4 drivers that are able to make laps in the 11.2 to 11.5 range while the rest of the group is 12.0 or higher times.

f1larry

iTrader: (22)

As with any class the fast drivers will always be the fastest, even if every car was setup identical the fast drivers would still be the fastest. they practice more and know how to get through the corners without scrubing speed.

Just because the motor is speced out doesn't mean that everyone will be the same what it does do is balance everything more and you know it is not just the motor that is beating you. At our track on the last layout the fastes guys were .3 - .5 seconds faster for their hot laps. Then you had a large group of guys all running about the same and were on the same lap, then you had the newer guys that are just learning. With a spec motor it is about minimizing mistakes, setting up your car, and running the best lines on the track. I am not one of the fast guys but at the last race I qualified 11th out of 25 won the B main and bumped up to the A where I finished 6th I drove my best race to do that and my hot lap was .5 seconds behind the winner.

Everyone had close battles with many passes for position, that is what makes the class fun.

BullFrog

iTrader: (4)

I'll just make a few statements as it is interesting reading so far. Since we started the class and it has had several revisions. the main differences is the fast drivers will always be faster regardless. Since we have only one carpet track down here and we run outdoors we have two differences - Open motors and foam tires. We still have the same problems as what has been brought up here lately. No two motors are ever alike no matter what. as an example a few getting ready for the birds bought 5 motors (USGT) all 5 were timed differently from 28-31 degrees. Giving every motor manufacturer a chance to compete is what we intended. We have also done the spec gear ratios before and that did not work.
Actually some of the gear ratios mentioned is what we are using. This class had brought back many new and old racers both ways. And that's what it is all abought and having fun racing again each other.