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GT12-RT

Old 04-27-2022, 06:21 PM
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So if you have a motor that runs great on 2S when set to 45 degrees timing, what timing should you use if you go to a 1S battery? And why?
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Old 04-27-2022, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
So if you have a motor that runs great on 2S when set to 45 degrees timing, what timing should you use if you go to a 1S battery? And why?
I think you are asking if magic dust exists? Wondering how many people run both 2S and 1S 21.5 motors... and have a dyno... and would be willing to share all of their hard work on the internet for everyone.

I for one cannot answer your question. Never done that type of comparison. I run mostly 1S (1/12th and WGTR). I am that old school fast guy who knew what to do to make rocket fast brushed motors. Been back in RC for three seasons and until four months ago was buying team edition motors and was afraid to open them up out of fear of screwing them up. Since December, I have purchased a Mini-Pro dyno, bought the Sky RC 2s dyno and built a resistance dyno. After hours and hours of testing/adjusting and learning how 21.5 and 17.5 motors respond, I find that I set most motors around 50 degrees of timing, trying to balance torque and efficiency. I think I could have saved a ton of time and money knowing that I could buy a team edition motor, crank the timing to 50 degrees and be close enough for club racing.

Maybe someone else is out there who has spent more time building motors for both 1s and 2s?
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Old 04-27-2022, 08:07 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
So if you have a motor that runs great on 2S when set to 45 degrees timing, what timing should you use if you go to a 1S battery? And why?
Most of the guys at our track running GT12 RT 1s with HW V10 G3 21.5 timing at 30deg with a rollout around 100/102mm
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Old 04-28-2022, 04:50 AM
  #169  
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I have the Dyno and I can tell you that I have gone to lower timing settings across the board. Torque is king on our smallish indoor tracks and depending on the motor the low end torque disappears fairly quickly as you turn up the timing. My GT12 class uses a fixed timing motor (USGT Spec) and it is a 30-32 degree motor. Funny thing is I own that same motor in the TOUR oval series spec which is set at 45 degrees. There is a significant torque difference in the lower range of the motor. That doesn't hurt a oval guy on most tracks as they are typically higher in the rpm range.
Almost all of my motors are between 30 and 38 degrees. Variations in rotor strength and stator design by brand have affects on the timing sweet spot.
In the near future, I will have a heavier flywheel for my Fantom Dyno. I expect much better data from the increased inertia of that wheel. The aluminum wheel doesn't load the motor as much (it was fine on brushed motors) so the prime data was only about .5 seconds worth.
A solid characteristic for those without a dyno. Peak power happens at near 50% of peak no load rpm. The motor also has peak torque at near zero rpm and near zero torque at peak rpm. As you turn up the timing the power peak moves to a higher point. Watts is a straight torque and RPM calculation. So what you are doing is shifting the torque curve with the timing. The sweet spot is getting the torque curve flatter without killing the bottom end.
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Old 04-28-2022, 06:17 AM
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For what itís worth, the Fantom flywheel dyno is the only one that seemed particularly useful to me. IMO, unloaded free spinning data doesnít relate very well to what the motor experiences in the car and on the track.

So Iím guessing that with unusually low timing settings you are also liking very tall rollouts???

using your dyno findings (which make good sense to me), what kind of timing and rollout settings might you recommend as starting point with on a decent fresh 17.5 motor?
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Old 04-28-2022, 07:56 AM
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It's really hard to nail anything down for a specific person unfortunately. Too many factors are at play to give someone sound advice. Driving style can completely change how you run a motor. Some motors like low timing and lots of teeth, some like high timing with few teeth...then there's all the motors in between. The only way to really know how your motor performs is to put it on the track and run some clean laps and check the times throughout a run....yes, it takes a long time. But again, I have to circle back...driving style can take an extremely well set up motor for one person and be a dog to the next. It's all these attributes that keep people racing, whether they like to admit it, or even realize it, or not.
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Old 04-28-2022, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
For what itís worth, the Fantom flywheel dyno is the only one that seemed particularly useful to me. IMO, unloaded free spinning data doesnít relate very well to what the motor experiences in the car and on the track.

So Iím guessing that with unusually low timing settings you are also liking very tall rollouts???

using your dyno findings (which make good sense to me), what kind of timing and rollout settings might you recommend as starting point with on a decent fresh 17.5 motor?
I run WGTR which is a 17.5 open motor class on 1 cell. last weekend I ran a SMC with a very strong rotor set at 35 degrees. The gearing was 40/92 and the CRC tire is 2.44 in dia. That is about a 85 rollout. Our track is 90 x 40 and the current layout generates mid 10 second laps for the class. Funny but our GT12-R cars are around 120 rollout with the USGT 32 degree motor and run close to the same lap times.
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Old 04-28-2022, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
For what itís worth, the Fantom flywheel dyno is the only one that seemed particularly useful to me. IMO, unloaded free spinning data doesnít relate very well to what the motor experiences in the car and on the track.

So Iím guessing that with unusually low timing settings you are also liking very tall rollouts???

using your dyno findings (which make good sense to me), what kind of timing and rollout settings might you recommend as starting point with on a decent fresh 17.5 motor?
As a adder, I also have a TurboDyno. I don't use it often as it really doesn't seem to apply well. I recently did timing and rotor testing for a new SMC motor that you should be seeing soon.
I also will have steel flywheels for the Fantom Dyno available once we confirm the prototype.
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Old 04-29-2022, 05:40 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Tim Stamper View Post
The class has been on the entry form since 4/1. They had 5 last Friday and a few more will join us on the 6th.

Tires are now in stock, so that should help...I gave away all of my spare sets to help people get on the track right away.
Thanks for the update!
May need to put one of these together!
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Old 04-30-2022, 05:57 AM
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Old 04-30-2022, 08:56 AM
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How wide is that Blitz P1 (at center of wheel wells)? It says 170mm but is that both front and rear?
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Old 04-30-2022, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
How wide is that Blitz P1 (at center of wheel wells)? It says 170mm but is that both front and rear?
172 mm rear, 170 mm tront.
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Old 04-30-2022, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gwc View Post
172 mm rear, 170 mm tront.
TY
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Old 04-30-2022, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
TY
If you are going to buy one get the light weight the .80 is a brick.
BLZ60909-05 BLITZ Lightweight P1 1/12th On-Road Car Clear Body ( - Michael's RC Hobbies (michaelsrchobbies.com)
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Old 04-30-2022, 08:31 PM
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Iíve been focusing more on my gt12 A12 lately. Itís a great class at apex. Some of the best people Iíve ever had the pleasure of racing against and learning from. If youíre in the area and looking for some of the most fun people to race against then apex is your kinda track
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