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Old 04-11-2006, 03:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne
Rick, I don't dispute any of your points, but the guy asked the question and they are all valid reasons why we don't have LiPos legal at present.

No question, Orion/Peak have done a good job on the safety front. However, there are safety concerns over correct connections to a charger, and selecting the correct program to charge with. If a driver uses cells without the features of your packs, then legitimate safety concerns are raised. Rules may not be as simple as voltage and shape changes, there may have to be others to promote safety.

I agree that people have to use them properly, but they don't use the current kit properly! We are saved accidents because the safety margin in current kit is so high - not so LiPo as things stand. This is not a market populated by high-calibre professionals, we are mostly amateurs, albeit some with a few gifts!

The issue with four-cell is voltage - a single LiPo pack runs at 3.7v to 3.2 v - and the fact that it might not be enough to power a brushless. We can always use a receiver pack to take care of the other bits, and weight won't be an issue, but it will have to be big enough to keep the servo happy.

My biggest concern is actually what it does to newcomers. They buy a RTR, usually Tamiya, Kyosho, or the Associated/Losi cars, and then arrive at a Club to find they are uncompetitive and facing a $350 cost to get on the same speed level as everyone else. Not a great way to get new drivers into our sport IMHO.

I hope everyone is a professional as Peak in bringing this to market, but the history we have in this game over the last 30 years is that is doesn't work like that. Some way to go before we get a race full of brushless/LiPo, I think, and avoid putting the new drivers off making this their hobby!
Sorry, but I must disagree because I am one of those new people to the hobby and it is precisely the cost and maintenance of current motors and batteries the nearly drove me away. Honestly, when confronted with building battery packs, battery maintenance, purchasing practice and race packs, replacing brushes, cutting comms and all the equipment necessary to perform these tasks itís no wonder we donít have more participation in this hobby.

Unfortunately, at my local track, Iím forced to run brushed stock w/conventional batteries in TC. For off-road there is a spec Novak 4300 class and given how much more open the off-road folks seem to be relative to new technology Iím willing to bet that Lipo will be o.k. there also in the very near future. As much as I love running a TC I may give it up for the simplicity of off-road.
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:38 PM   #32
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re;;voltage
when you charge up your C-cells peak value peaks of around 9.2
li-po goes up to & stay`s there while being charged around 8.0-8.5 that`s it
it`s just that the li-po will stay around 8.0v for alot longer then C-cells while racing

(PS,this a rough idea what`s going on with voltage, so go easy on me

.2v is that a big difference from 7.2 that will show on track

that`s like having a 6 amp charge compared to a 6.5 amp charge yes/no ??
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:02 PM   #33
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I see some matchers comming off with 1.22-1.23v per cell, we're already over the 1.2v mark with NiMaH. And with 4200's and you know 4400-4500 has already been stated as furture releases, the gap on voltage/capacity closes. Its going to be the IR and discharge curve that is a huge differance, not to mention lifespan.
As far as rules are concerned, I think we need both types of batteries. Keep the stock,spec classes as NiMah, Open mod can run either battery, but must meet the weight minimum. For 1/12 I dont see anything else but NiMah's. its not like they need more capacity anyway, we ususally get 12min with a 19t running old 3300's.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lano
Sorry, but I must disagree because I am one of those new people to the hobby and it is precisely the cost and maintenance of current motors and batteries the nearly drove me away. Honestly, when confronted with building battery packs, battery maintenance, purchasing practice and race packs, replacing brushes, cutting comms and all the equipment necessary to perform these tasks itís no wonder we donít have more participation in this hobby.
I'm not new to the hobby and I also agree. The reality is that these current race legal batteries lose performance quickly. When new batteries are for needed for an event I found it frustrating. The cost of being competitive at large races was problematic (aka - battery of the week). Hence the reason that I turned away from electric TC and to 1/8th buggy.

I also was a part of this Tamiya Enduro over the weekend & used primarily the Peak Lipo's. Very surprised at the level performance with this product! (and no I'm not buying into the fear factor of lipo's...seen standard batteries fail also)

I'll come back to TC as a regular when the battery rule changes...until then, it's doubtful. Iíll stick to the few events that allow Lipo power (Tamiya Enduroís and the KO Grand Prix)

It will be interesting to see if track owners embrace the lipo's regardless of what the current race organizations rule. If it means bringing more racers to the track...and hobby, why not?

(hope the RC Pro Series is reading...can you say Lipo electric classes as a spin off of the current nitro classes?)

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Old 04-12-2006, 01:02 AM   #35
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fear factor
people have seen li-po`s burn up
i`ve seen a pack of 37`s get shorted in a FK05 ,during a race (he`s raced this car for 3 month`s allready) then 3 cells went flames,smoke ,they just got the car & tossed out of the hall into the carpark
upshot of it all no belts ,chassis,battery bar & top deck burn`t & warped to buggery,little bit of alloy bulkhead melted platics melted

just be warned though
short circuiting a li-po is very bad indeedy they just don`t fizzel & spark a little with the odd flame , they go !!!!!
but the peak incased one is preety solid protection it`s them 2 female holes which can be wired up wrong (extra care here)

think it would be better if they had positive at one end & negative the other , then wiired up the pos lead won`t reach the neg one (just a idea)

or bigger patch of `RED` paint around the pos

why can`t the li-po`s be in the same class as these flashy 42`s/43`s ,but run to the minium weight (1500g) yes alot of lead is needed if you use li-po .but this is a small price to pay for low finance racing
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:04 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjack
It will be interesting to see if track owners embrace the lipo's regardless of what the current race organizations rule. If it means bringing more racers to the track...and hobby, why not?

(hope the RC Pro Series is reading...can you say Lipo electric classes as a spin off of the current nitro classes?)

John Christensen
i have 3 local tracks that allow the li-po to run 2 indoors & 1 outdoors (UK)
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjack
I'm not new to the hobby and I also agree. The reality is that these current race legal batteries lose performance quickly. When new batteries are for needed for an event I found it frustrating. The cost of being competitive at large races was problematic (aka - battery of the week). Hence the reason that I turned away from electric TC and to 1/8th buggy.

I also was a part of this Tamiya Enduro over the weekend & used primarily the Peak Lipo's. Very surprised at the level performance with this product! (and no I'm not buying into the fear factor of lipo's...seen standard batteries fail also)
AMEN!

I quit racing onroad electric completely...too much hassle and too much drama. I run 4wd Mod at SoCal with my 5800 and LiPos...no hassles, nothing but fun (and a few broken parts here and there ) and 1/8th at Rev. I can also run the 1/10th gas class at Rev (with full 10 minute mains) with my Lazer.

Why run onroad electric? It's more expensive, more hassle and very restrictive rules that suck all the fun out of it for lots of people (including me). The enduro was very fun...it was all about preparation, strategy and driving skill, just like it should be.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:13 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
The voltage is important when a fresh charged pack starts at a higher voltage then the other, not to mention that extra .2volts likely doesnt drop down to 7.2 quickly. ITs like saying 3300s are as good as 3800s. there is no difference, well we all know there is, higher voltage with a longer higher discharge curve.
thats exactly it 38's are to 33's what Lipos are to 38's. the voltage curve just stays a little higher but for a lot longer. it just represents a massive leap for sub-c size cells but in the form of a Lipo. that .2v means almost nothing on the track just an old set of 33's vs a new set of 38's if that. any good driver with 38's could beat a decent driver with a lipo on the same weight limit. i think they should be made legal get the initial rush and protests out the way and the playing field leveled.
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Old 04-12-2006, 07:55 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racingbod85
i think they should be made legal get the initial rush and protests out the way and the playing field leveled.
pig`s might fly before then
contact them see wahat they say
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