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3racing Cero Ultra V1 & V2

Old 06-11-2024, 05:29 PM
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So let me ask, because I think I may have run into this issue when it comes to diff oil weight as well when referencing the Hudy chart...

What track surfaces are typically being referenced when they say "high" and "low" grip and don't state what the surface is?

I have been told that my home track, Cal Raceway in Orange, CA, is a high grip asphalt track...but is it a high grip surface in relation to carpet or overall? Or is it just high grip for asphalt?

Isn't old_dude running on carpet, and thus would be running on a high grip surface? Yet he said he has removed his shims...

I'm confused!
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Old 06-12-2024, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
Get a copy of the Hudy setup station handbook. It reviews all of the tuning options with touring car chassis. Best part is the table in the back which ranks the type of change by importance.
Yes the roll center adjustments are a critical setup tool. The Hudy book disagrees with the front lower arm angle (anti dive). front higher smooths out corner entry per their description.
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Old 06-12-2024, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by woofenstein
So let me ask, because I think I may have run into this issue when it comes to diff oil weight as well when referencing the Hudy chart...

What track surfaces are typically being referenced when they say "high" and "low" grip and don't state what the surface is?

I have been told that my home track, Cal Raceway in Orange, CA, is a high grip asphalt track...but is it a high grip surface in relation to carpet or overall? Or is it just high grip for asphalt?

Isn't old_dude running on carpet, and thus would be running on a high grip surface? Yet he said he has removed his shims...

I'm confused!
Low/Med/High grip is just words .... just like your asking, what is what.
Even for carpet you could go from a national level race and hear people call it med bite then to your local run every weekend track and hear guys call it high bite.
For carpet I see too many people thing 'black crc high bite' when its actually not.
Worlds was black crc carpet and drivers complained traction was down. Indoor champs is black crc carpet and its always called high bite.

Asphalt I think most consider high bite as the tracks that use VHT and you see the black groove like a nitro track.
Med would be honey with soda sprays on permanent tracks.
Low being your normal throw it down parking lots with soda sprayed down and needing to be blown off.

Carpet - local fixed tracks dedicated to onroad every weekend - High bite
Med bite roll it out tracks or tracks with multi use like offroad some days and on road other days
Low - ran on once a week and used for anything they want to run on it.

Roll centers - theres no 'do this do that' to them. Theres a 'ball park' setup/idea and the ability to run what the fast guys are running.
But that doesnt mean you cant try more or less. Nothing is fixed in stone when it comes to setups.
Look at the Mi9 - compare the 8 and even with a 1mm shim under their arms they are still .5mm lower then a stock no shim Mi8
That car was fast but the Mi9 put setups in a complete opposite from the 8 (or at least what setup sheets told you)

Less lower arm shims = lower roll center = more grip to that end
More upper arm shims = lower roll center = more grip to that end
Surface is just what youre racing on and sets the base line setup.
Dont be affraid to try something different then the fast guy.

In my opinion speeds are currently exceeding tires abilities so drivers are finding lower RC's are playing a bigger benefit.
You can see the direction change in some manufacturers and driver setup sheets.
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Old 06-12-2024, 01:52 PM
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You are correct I run on black crc carpet. No two of those are the same as production runs vary. But it is typically medium to high grip carpet.
we always look for side bite. The Cero has a taller inner pivot ball than other cars so I experimented and it worked. I run both the vta and 21.5 LMPH car that way. But make no mistake I tune with roll centers and anti dive. Just like using caster, camber and toe. Just another piece in the puzzle.
I do the same with my pan cars. I am lucky to have a local track that typically has 3 open but not race days a week. Super valuable and with some good tuners in house.
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Old 06-12-2024, 03:27 PM
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So, Where would diff height come in to play?
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Old 06-12-2024, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alb
So, Where would diff height come in to play?
I am working on that. I have a old x-ray sheet that tells you what it is supposed to do.
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Old 06-12-2024, 05:09 PM
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Xray T4 2020 vs. 3racing Cero Ultra V1 V2?
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Old 06-12-2024, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jahlion247
Xray T4 2020 vs. 3racing Cero Ultra V1 V2?
Same answer, cero v2 with the alloy chassis. Only xray better is the 24.
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Old 06-12-2024, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by old_dude
Same answer, cero v2 with the alloy chassis. Only xray better is the 24.
Understood.
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Old 06-13-2024, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Robbob
Low/Med/High grip is just words .... just like your asking, what is what....
Thanks a bunch for this detailed response!

Another question for you all...when measuring droop what is the reference point, is it the bottom of the arm or is the bottom of the pivot ball w/ clips?

I like how the XRAY setup sheets have an arrow for where the measurement should be taken.
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Old 06-13-2024, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by old_dude
I am working on that. I have a old x-ray sheet that tells you what it is supposed to do.


Here is the guide from my XRAY T4 2017 manual.
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Old 06-14-2024, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by woofenstein


Here is the guide from my XRAY T4 2017 manual.
Great image. The one I had didn't have the graphics. Same description.
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Old 06-14-2024, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by woofenstein
Thanks a bunch for this detailed response!

Another question for you all...when measuring droop what is the reference point, is it the bottom of the arm or is the bottom of the pivot ball w/ clips?

I like how the XRAY setup sheets have an arrow for where the measurement should be taken.
I do it on the chassis without measuring the arm. Set my ride height then set the gage under the chassis with the adder to the ride height I desire. Rotate the tire while adjusting the droop screw until it just wants to rotate. Then use the pickup method to adjust the other side to match. Pretty easy and done with the tires on.
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Old 06-15-2024, 08:32 AM
  #1019  
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Originally Posted by old_dude
I do it on the chassis without measuring the arm. Set my ride height then set the gage under the chassis with the adder to the ride height I desire. Rotate the tire while adjusting the droop screw until it just wants to rotate. Then use the pickup method to adjust the other side to match. Pretty easy and done with the tires on.
Interesting, never heard of this method I'll give it a shot.

What is a good starting point on this car?
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Old 06-17-2024, 03:49 AM
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Itís back
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