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Old 03-29-2007, 08:46 AM   #751
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:15 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by darkfox
A few of the guys on here that full scale race should consider the damaging effects of nitro fuel (funny cars and such) and petrole fuel (stock and f-1) on the human body. These same guys spend hours on end inhaling the fuel and then the exhaust of that fuel every day of the week and think nothing of it.
so, what you're saying is, because they are doing something worse, we should be ok inhaling compound? is that right? so if someone else, say, takes heroin, that means you shouldn't feel bad about sniffing coke, after all, "that guy" is doing something worse and he's still alive and maybe healthy. (i don't know which drug is actually worse, but you get the analogy)

again, i know for many (including me!) it is very very difficult to consciously choose to stop using the stuff when it doesn't seem to affect us today, in this moment. perhaps we should get over that. it wasn't until many many years later that they had empirical evidence about second hand smoking, but i bet there were a lot of people who thought about it early on. are there more toxic elements we are using? sure there is. i don't see why that matters.

change is very difficult, and is most often imposed on us (like new battery technology), its very rarely volunteered to be taken by the apathetic masses until something drastic happens, like vast numbers of people dying of lung cancer, or something like that. and there are also companies out there that will oppose change because it impacts their current business model and revenue stream. they will put up all kinds of arguments against change. but the consumer, and the masses have a lot of influence.

many companies like dell computer, are now being faced with the legislation of owning the complete product life cycle, which means they take the required measures during manufacturing, and also have to provide a means for you to properly dispose of your computer years later to protect the environment. over the upcoming years this will be imposed on all companies.

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If we ban traction compound then we better ban fuel, and then we should ban furnaces and A/C units, large air compressors, refridgerators, BBQ's.....and the list goes on and on and on.
are people getting hurt or sick from the proper use of furnaces and ac units?
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:45 AM   #753
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so, what you're saying is, because they are doing something worse, we should be ok inhaling compound? is that right? so if someone else, say, takes heroin, that means you shouldn't feel bad about sniffing coke, after all, "that guy" is doing something worse and he's still alive and maybe healthy. (i don't know which drug is actually worse, but you get the analogy)

again, i know for many (including me!) it is very very difficult to consciously choose to stop using the stuff when it doesn't seem to affect us today, in this moment. perhaps we should get over that. it wasn't until many many years later that they had empirical evidence about second hand smoking, but i bet there were a lot of people who thought about it early on. are there more toxic elements we are using? sure there is. i don't see why that matters.
racers are a valid comparisson. drug users aren't. i understand your concerns, really I do, but racers have been using toxic materials for how long? drivers inhale toxic fumes as they rip down the track at 150mph. but somehow the R/C industry has to ban traction compound because some people are getting sick using it. I'm sure ALL the race crews of ALL the teams are all just fine with inhaling their crap all day long. this a seriously slippery slope I'm reading about here. next we're going to ban nitro fuel and create water motors for off-road R/C's. after that we're going to ban air filter lube, cause it discolours the skin and that can't be healthy. after that we're going to have to ban batteries all together because too many racers try and peak their cells before a race and blow up a battery sending oxidized acid into the air. then we'll have to ban solder because inhaling the smoke is hazardous.

see what I mean? our industry is FULL of hazardous materials. hell. some of our body paint litterally has to be shipped as Haz-Mat....how healthy is that?

if your body is too weak to put up with a little traction compound how long is it going to be before your body is too weak to put up with exhaust fumes from nitro vehicles? maybe it's time for a new hobby if this one is so hazardous to your health?

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are people getting hurt or sick from the proper use of furnaces and ac units?
actually ya....they are. there's this thing called carbon monoxide. if the seals on your gas line aren't tight you can die from inhaling too much of it. same goes for a BBQ, accidents happen, you light the BBQ, the propane hose isn't tight and you've got yourself a rocket. Sometimes from the factory a small leak of freon can cause illness in a household. Proper use doesn't negate side effects of poor worksmanship, time, and wear and tear.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:34 AM   #754
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For every example that someone posts on this forum making the argument that we live in a dangerous world, so just live with it, one can make a counter argument showing examples of how we have taken steps to make our lives safer from threats in our world. This is a natural argument back and forth and I understand and agree with boths sides of it. In the end this helps us achieve a natural balance of what things to address and what things to leave alone.

In the end this forum and poll has shown that there is a significant concern about this issue and the majority of people that have voted believe we should do somthing about it, as flawed as you may feel that poll is or is not, it is certainly more accurate than simply someone's "opinion" that this is or is not an issue that needs addressing.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:38 AM   #755
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most definately, but maybe the opinions will alter someone's mind who's on the fence about the whole topic.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:04 AM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfox
actually ya....they are. there's this thing called carbon monoxide. if the seals on your gas line aren't tight you can die from inhaling too much of it. same goes for a BBQ, accidents happen, you light the BBQ, the propane hose isn't tight and you've got yourself a rocket. Sometimes from the factory a small leak of freon can cause illness in a household. Proper use doesn't negate side effects of poor worksmanship, time, and wear and tear.
All the products listed above have clear warning tags and instructions on there proper use and maintenance. These types of warnings are missing from many of the chemicals we use for RC racing (traction compounds especially). We as racers need to tighten up safety standards for our sport from third world standards to the first world standards, where most of us and our families live today.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:47 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by Tsquare
All the products listed above have clear warning tags and instructions on there proper use and maintenance. These types of warnings are missing from many of the chemicals we use for RC racing (traction compounds especially). We as racers need to tighten up safety standards for our sport from third world standards to the first world standards, where most of us and our families live today.
Every traction compound bottle I've ever picked up has clear warnings on it. Jack the Gripper, Niftech, Paragon.....all of them have warnings against inhaling and injesting. The last jerry-can of fuel I picked up for my lawn-mower doesn't have a "do not inhale" label on it....
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:31 PM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfox
Every traction compound bottle I've ever picked up has clear warnings on it. Jack the Gripper, Niftech, Paragon.....all of them have warnings against inhaling and injesting. The last jerry-can of fuel I picked up for my lawn-mower doesn't have a "do not inhale" label on it....
Again, these warnings on traction compound bottles, fail in comparision of detail and instruction of proper use when compared to the examples you had given (gas appliances, BBQ's, etc.)

The manufacturer clearly recommends against inhaling the vapors from their traction compounds. Maybe they recommend against inhaling the vapors, because it is dangerous to your health.

And your point is - we should continue to ignore the maufacturers recommendations of breathing these vapors and race in rooms filled with these vapors - that the manufacturers themselves recommend with should not inhale

Because, according to you there is not enough proof that these chemical vapors are / or can do harm to a persons health - Brilliant
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:23 PM   #759
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Tell you what. Since I've never said, not even once, that traction compound is safe or advisable to inhale, I'll give you the chance to apologize and back off. Putting words in my mouth is most definately NOT the way to get your point across.

However. Being that you brought it up you are 100% right. It's not healthy to inhale the fumes from the traction compound. I've never said that it is, nor have I infered that it's ok. I'm simply pointing out the obvious that everyone seems to be forgetting. There are MANY ways that we daily expose ourselves to these chemicals. If we drive, if we walk, if we sit in our houses and watch TV all the time. Every minute of every day we're inhaling things we really shouldn't. What I'm attempting to enlighten you to, my abrupt and extremely rude forumite is simply this.

USING TRACTION COMPOUND SHOULD BE AN OPTION!

Oh my God! We have the freedom to write and say what we want no matter how inflamitory it is but we're going to have a group of people stand up and take away something that is, at the end of the day, OUR CHOICE to use. It's not illegal, hell....the manufacturers tell us it's not recommended to inhale.

So put the damned compound on or don't.
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Last edited by darkfox; 03-29-2007 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:38 PM   #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfox
Tell you what. Since I've never said, not even once, that traction compound is safe or advisable to inhale, I'll give you the chance to apologize and back off. Putting words in my mouth is most definately NOT the way to get your point across.

However. Being that you brought it up you are 100% right. It's not healthy to inhale the fumes from the traction compound. I've never said that it is, nor have I infered that it's ok. I'm simply pointing out the obvious that everyone seems to be forgetting. There are MANY ways that we daily expose ourselves to these chemicals. If we drive, if we walk, if we sit in our houses and watch TV all the time. Every minute of every day we're inhaling things we really shouldn't. What I'm attempting to enlighten you to, my abrupt and extremely rude forumite is simply this.

USING TRACTION COMPOUND SHOULD BE AN OPTION!

Oh my God! We have the freedom to write and say what we want no matter how inflamitory it is but we're going to have a group of people stand up and take away something that is, at the end of the day, OUR CHOICE to use. It's not illegal, hell....the manufacturers tell us it's not recommended to inhale.

So put the damned compound on or don't.
I would agree if you could contain the fumes but since you can not (much the same as cigarette smoke) then even if I choose not to use traction compound and you do I will still be exposed to the fumes.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:54 PM   #761
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I would agree if you could contain the fumes but since you can not (much the same as cigarette smoke) then even if I choose not to use traction compound and you do I will still be exposed to the fumes.
Very true. But remember. You're being exposed to car exhaust fumes everyday and I don't see a lot of people boycotting or demanding vehicles be banned.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:02 PM   #762
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Very true. But remember. You're being exposed to car exhaust fumes everyday and I don't see a lot of people boycotting or demanding vehicles be banned.
Yes, there are lots of things we encounter everyday that are unhealthy. However I think most people will try to remove as many of those as possible. I can't change the fact that we are a society that relies on automobiles for transportation but it seems pretty simple and logical to ban a substance used for a hobby that isn't really necessary. I really don't understand the "they'll have to pry my traction compound from my cold dead fingers" mentality. I mean is it really that important to your enjoyment of the hobby? Would it ruin your experience if it wasn't there?

Since we know there are chemicals in these products that are harmful and they are being used in confined, poorly ventilated area isn't the prudent thing to do for both participants and spectators to remove them?
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:09 PM   #763
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RCTech used to be good...now its Trinity Tech Talk all over again
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:41 PM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lano
Yes, there are lots of things we encounter everyday that are unhealthy. However I think most people will try to remove as many of those as possible. I can't change the fact that we are a society that relies on automobiles for transportation but it seems pretty simple and logical to ban a substance used for a hobby that isn't really necessary. I really don't understand the "they'll have to pry my traction compound from my cold dead fingers" mentality. I mean is it really that important to your enjoyment of the hobby? Would it ruin your experience if it wasn't there?

Since we know there are chemicals in these products that are harmful and they are being used in confined, poorly ventilated area isn't the prudent thing to do for both participants and spectators to remove them?
Actually I could care less. I learnt how to drive with rubber tires and no traction additive. It was on a dare, but the traction compound and foam tires makes it easy for new racers to hook up in the corners without actually being a better driver. I'm all about choice. I'd like racers to be able to chose to (or not to as the case may be) use traction compound. I really think that, as a society focused on the ability to chose which products we want to use, or want to be around.

If people don't want to use traction compound that's cool with me. This year I changed to Niftech because one of our series host cities wanted only Niftech on their new carpet. I really didn't notice a difference between Niftech and the Paragon stuff I used to use.

Basically my arguements boil down to the freedom to chose and the freedom to continue in the hobby if you've got a problem with traction compound. I don't think track owners should be "forced" to ban traction compounds. I really don't see the difference between traction compound vapours and nitro exhaust. They're both hazardous hobby related vapours. Why ban one, and keep the other??
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:06 AM   #765
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Originally Posted by darkfox
Very true. But remember. You're being exposed to car exhaust fumes everyday and I don't see a lot of people boycotting or demanding vehicles be banned.
Actually there are. Both because of health issues and broader environmental issues. On the latter there is this guy called Gore (what a name ) I believe.
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