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Old 03-27-2007, 03:14 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Only EddieO!! LOL Call me when you get a chance.

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I saw the ban silicon shock oil post and I started typing but Eddie beat me too the boob post
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:56 PM   #707
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This "I need proof" discussion is an interesting one.

I am not going to sit hear and tell you there is as much proof about these additives as lets say the smoking cigs. That would just be silly.

However there are MSDS etc type documents referenced in this thread indicating that too much exposure and direct contact with skin will cause harm. Just like there are warnings saying that too much smoking is bad for you. If you have just a few smokes then your risk is not as high as those that smoke a pack a day. And even at a pack a day you may still not get cancer.

What we don't know for sure about these additives, is how much exposure does it take to be harmful. However, can anyone tell me for sure how many smokes it takes to get cancer? There is not definitive answer that I am aware of. The answer would likely be it varies and there will be probabilities of it happening because there has been millions of dollars spent on testing the affects of smoking. We will never get the same kind of data for these tire additives, because there is just not enough money to spend on these tests. So if you need as much proof about these additives as there is about smoking, then you will never be convinced, because it just won't happen.

So when you say you need proof, my argument is there is already some level of proof. I certainly admit there is not as much proof as there is for smoking but there never will be. You may want to take that gamble. Certainly people who smoke today take that gamble even with the mountains of proof there is that it causes cancer. So no matter how much proof we have there will always be people that believe this stuff is ok to use and nothing will happen to them.

So, contrary to a post earlier about my objectives...my objective is not to conduct further testing, because I think it would be far too costly and may not accomplish much. It is my objective to get this stuff removed from the hobby.

Creating lawsuits against these companies....is also an interesting thread of discussion.

I had someone tell me last week that I should not make this such a public concern, because this was just a personal issue, and should "put my money where my mouth is" and create a lawsuit against these tire additive companies. This person felt that this would be more productive.

I have three objections to that strategy.

1) I think awareness of the issue is an important objective and even if people take measure to reduce exposure then my approach has done some good here.

2) If I was to create a lawsuit against these companies that may put them out of business, and create a cascading affect through the entire industry.... This is a tough industry with low margins...the last thing that is needed is lawsuits. Yes by banning these additives some companies will take a financial hit, but my belief is that this is a more postive and less damaging approach than creating lawsuits. Some people will disagree with me on that, and I respect their opinions, but this is my point of view.

3) This is not just a personal issue, as demonstrated by the discussion on this thread. There are a number of people other than myself who feel the ill affects of these chemicals.

Through all of this I have no doubt created some enimies, that wish I would just shut up. But I can live with that, because I believe in what I am doing and more importantly there seems to be some strong support for this cause.
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:58 PM   #708
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btw - i also agree with those that have said they are tired of the banter back and forth on this issue. I would much rather focus on solutions and alternatives than dicussing how harmful this stuff is.
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:05 PM   #709
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:50 PM   #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
btw - i also agree with those that have said they are tired of the banter back and forth on this issue. I would much rather focus on solutions and alternatives than dicussing how harmful this stuff is.
The best solution is getting the ingrediants for all the common compounds, additives, cleaners, etc... used for RC.

With those ingrediants I will take it to my RC buddy who is also a cardiologist. Maybe others can do the same too, so we can converge on the same viewpoint.

With no action, thread just becomes useless dribble and speculation.
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:57 PM   #711
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i agree that no action is a waste of time...

That's why my suggestion for action is to ban the additives.
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:01 PM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
i agree that no action is a waste of time...

That's why my suggestion for action is to ban the additives.
Not trying to pick a fight,. . . how can you ban something without knowing the ingrediants?

I think it would make your/our case easier.
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:24 PM   #713
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It's like banning water because someone drowned in it once.
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:36 PM   #714
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i wonder,

anyone use snuggle or bounce liquid softener on tires?

not only does it smell good...

LOL

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Old 03-27-2007, 06:41 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by BlueBird-sr
It's like banning water because someone drowned in it once.
A local radio statio held a contest "hold your wee for a wii" ...one of the contestants dies of water intoxication: http://cbs13.com/national/topstories...017203608.html
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:47 PM   #716
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Originally Posted by A-Ko
With no action, thread just becomes useless dribble and speculation.

You've just described the entire internet.
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:48 PM   #717
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Everytime I think i'm out they drag me back in!!
Look, who gives a damn what the ingredients are, we know the stuff is dangerous, it is the most offensive of the chemicals, there is a substitute in suntan lotion that will be safer to 99.9% of the racing community. Right now these additives are harmful to everyone, even if you are too dumb to accept it, it is affecting you, if you take your kids to the track, it is affecting them. Tracks and hobby shops are places of business which means they have employees, which falls under the jurisdiction of OSHA. Trust me if they get ahold of this there wont be any tracks left, and it will be next to impossible to open one without obtaining a permit from them. So we can stay on here and act like a bunch of kindergartners and lose our tracks, or we can act like adults enact a ban and develop a soluton for an alternative. I am thinking simplegreen, googone and a little denatured alchohol for thinning/ drying. I have also heard that bushing lube works well too, in addition to suntan lotion.
For the rest of the chemicals either find a substitute or use extreme caution. Comm drops are not a threat unless you directly ingest them. it is the stuff that has compounds that allow it to dry quickly that are the major culprits. Andyes I know motor spray is one of them, but that one is harder to resolve because of the flammability issue. This would be one to use extreme caution with.
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:18 PM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW
Everytime I think i'm out they drag me back in!!
Look, who gives a damn what the ingredients are, we know the stuff is dangerous, it is the most offensive of the chemicals, there is a substitute in suntan lotion that will be safer to 99.9% of the racing community.
It worked! ...

Seriously, knowing the chemical makeup only supports our case. Just saying chemicals are "dangerous" is not enough for people to implement a total ban or adjustment in behavior. I know my local track will listen to the "dangerous" argument with no problem. If you took the same argument to Trackside, they probably would shrug it off. If you went to a track and said "xytassedrwer" is a known carcinegen and can cause liver or kidney damage over extended periods or heavy concentration, that might change things.

I know they are "dangerous", I am up for a ban, I just need to know why, there are people that need those details to make changes.
Looks like another job for me to put on my list of things to do. . .
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:46 PM   #719
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I sure would like to know what ingredients are in there, because all the companies that make this stuff know that it's not just pro drivers that are gonna buy this stuff they know everyone from kids to the pro drivers are gonna use it because it works. My TQ 'BLU' says it contains octyl sallcylate and methyl sallcylate, whatever those are. It says nothing about breathing it in, just if you swallow it, eye and skin contact. If it is harmful you think they would come up with something a little safer?
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:47 PM   #720
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easy just post this at every entrance:

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