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Old 03-27-2007, 08:30 AM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA

You coming down Friday?
Yes, we'll be down Friday night. Probably won't get there until 9:30-10PM. Enough to set up and practice a couple times.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled debate.
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:40 AM   #662
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Originally Posted by JKA
My family makes tons of hard candy every year around the holidays. When they start making Spearmint and Peppermint I always have to leave the house for some fresh air. If not I get headaches and have trouble breathing.

Then we eat the candy.
Ya and when I cut fresh onions, my eye's water. But, then I eat them. Whats your point. There is a big difference from a natural herb and traction compounds that give you headaches.

Last edited by Juan Aveytia; 03-27-2007 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:55 AM   #663
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I have to agree with Juan on this one JKA - that was a weak comparison...funny but weak
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:14 AM   #664
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Guys, I think he was referring to Oil of Wintergreen.....natural or synthetic......its used in many things.......Candles, Sore Muscle Treaments (ben gay, icey hot, etc), gum, breath mints, and many other hard candies....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:57 AM   #665
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one paragon mojito coming up:

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Old 03-27-2007, 10:20 AM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
Whats your point.
Lost on you, obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
...funny but weak
Just like me.

If we don't truly know how harmful these chemicals are at the exposure levels we experience, then how can we be so sure that the headaches etc are indeed caused by the harmful chemicals? Maybe its just the smell of wintergreen that gets some, just like the onions. Pain in the ass for some, but harmless in reality. If you want to make racing safer, you need to be sure you are indeed attempting to fix the harmful aspects.

I'm certainly not against banning paragon, if it really is harmful. We don't know, though.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:10 PM   #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA
Lost on you, obviously.


Just like me.

If we don't truly know how harmful these chemicals are at the exposure levels we experience, then how can we be so sure that the headaches etc are indeed caused by the harmful chemicals? Maybe its just the smell of wintergreen that gets some, just like the onions. Pain in the ass for some, but harmless in reality. If you want to make racing safer, you need to be sure you are indeed attempting to fix the harmful aspects.

I'm certainly not against banning paragon, if it really is harmful. We don't know, though.
Your not making much common sense. If a chemical causes you to have nose bleeds like jack does. Or makes you lite headed, then there is something not safe about it. Enough people have posted the same symptoms. So, common sense tells you something is wrong. If wintergreen causes a headache for someone then it's harmfull to them. But, the issue is about jack, paragon tq orange and all the other tire additives. Yes, you need to send it to a lab to know the exact health problems these products will cause, but by no means do you need a lab to tell you that these products aren't safe for us to use. We all no there harmfull. I hope your not one of those people that thinks smoking and chewing tabacoo is safe until you get cancer. Cause you make every reason why these traction compounds are safe and you have nothing to back your claims. Maybe you should sit around a bunch of old asbestice building and say its safe. You won't feel any health issues for awhile right. To me, you are lost.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:26 PM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA
... how can we be so sure that the headaches etc are indeed caused by the harmful chemicals....
Like something as so simple as cilantro (yes the herb commonly used in salsa's and other dishes), can cause headaches and hives on some people.
Is it "harmful?".

I get headaches from things that are too salty, and I also get headaches from too much MSG.
Is it "harmful?".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
but by no means do you need a lab to tell you that these products aren't safe for us to use


Some people need people to tell them whats wrong:

"Caution, contents are hot!" -- cup of coffee
"For external use only!" -- On a curling iron.
"Do not use orally." -- On a toilet bowl cleaning brush.
"Once used rectally, the thermometer should not be used orally." --- On a thermometer.
"Never remove food or other items from the blades while the product is operating." --- Instructions for a blender.

Warning labels are a sign of our lawsuit-plagued society... if it doesn't say it, I can sue for damages and problems that occur from use.

It was best said by Dan Abrams of MSNBC in one of his closing arguments once:

Look, sometimes warnings can be lifesavers, particularly those that advise of an unforeseeable side effect, but so many simply reflect the major problem in our society-- the death of common sense and personal responsibility. A vast majority are paying a heavy price for the foolishness of a few.

I have an idea: How about switching it up and making those “few” wear a label, which reads, “Warning, I am of feeble mind. Don‘t assume I know anything. Please advise me of the use or misuse of anything that you sell me.”
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:35 PM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
I hope your not one of those people that thinks smoking and chewing tabacoo is safe until you get cancer. Cause you make every reason why these traction compounds are safe and you have nothing to back your claims.
Some"juan" shouldn't take this so personal.

I don't think smoking and tobacco are safe. Why? Because its proven that they are not. The legwork has been done. The results are in. And none of it was based simply upon someone's symptoms, as you guys are doing here.

And contrary to what you say, I've given no justifications for the safety of these things either. I don't know if they are safe or harmful. I'm merely saying that we shouldn't assume that the unfortunate symptoms of a clear minority are justification that we are in danger at the track.

And who is this Jack you speak of?
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:46 PM   #670
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Juan,
Dont worry, just give it time. They are all tough now, but wait till it catches up with them, and it will because you can tell from the jackass responses they probably damn near bathe in the stuff. When it does you will need ear plugs, because the whining will be excruciating, kind of like an air raid siren. They will want an immediate ban and be crying asking why something wasnt done sooner.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:47 PM   #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA
Lost on you, obviously.


Just like me.

If we don't truly know how harmful these chemicals are at the exposure levels we experience, then how can we be so sure that the headaches etc are indeed caused by the harmful chemicals? Maybe its just the smell of wintergreen that gets some, just like the onions. Pain in the ass for some, but harmless in reality. If you want to make racing safer, you need to be sure you are indeed attempting to fix the harmful aspects.

I'm certainly not against banning paragon, if it really is harmful. We don't know, though.
We all know that there are danagers. Which is why so many of us take precautions when exposed to the chemicals we us during racing. If someone truely believes the stuff is safe, try drinking it...if your body rejects the stuff, you know its bad....whoever brought up the excess water scenario being bad is unreasonable in comparision to the stuff we use as trie additives..your body is 70% water...no shit drinking 5 gallons of water at once is bad.

After countless visits to allergists, general practitioners and neurologists each and everyone of them have contributed the ill effects I've experienced to "pro-long" exposure to the tire additives and other chemicals we use in a closed environment such as indoor carpet racing.

When you're faced with having to go through numerous health tests you look to all possibilites which could cause an illness.

Interesting fact, the person who referred me to my general practitioner is a avid model airplane flyer and a medical doctor. He exercises extreme caution when using model airplane fuel...even though he is outdoors...According to him, the fact we race indoors only further complicates matters due the concentrated exposure.

Therefore when I've met with all the doctors I've told them about my hobby. Their esponse was to avoid pro-long exposure to any of the chemical we use...ESPECIALLY indoors, which seems to be when & where I experience the adverse health symtoms.

The neurologist flat out said stay away from the stuff (paragon and Niftech) no ingredients = not worth it.

So, for meI'm going to have a hard time next winter season...I will most likely have to give up indoor carpet racing...or I'll have to pit outdoors to minimize the concentrated exposure? Which does not sound like a lot of fun when the temperature drop below freezing.

I know that alternatives are available...the "goal" of this forum should be to find such alternatives. But it only makes sense if everyone works to achieve this goal...

I've provided alternatives to motor spray...and a number of old timers have suggested suntan lotion as a tire additive alternative. These seem like a good start to create a relatively safe racing environment for indoor carpet racing...

People always say it can never happen to me...when you have no idea what is wrong with your health...its not a joking matter anymore...Martin is not the only one out there who should worry...the more exposure we have to this crap...the worse its going to be for everyone.

I hope ROAR decides to take a serious look into this...If I was elected, I can guarantee I would pushed to bann the use of tire additives by year end 2007.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:50 PM   #672
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....I put on my robe and wizard hat.....
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:57 PM   #673
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Safer Alternatives?

I guess we're going to have to use water on our foam tires because side effects of sunscreen lotion on foam tires could include blisters!!

From a major suntan lotion site:

Other Side Effects – Check with your healthcare provider if any of the following rare effects occur for your safety: itching or burning skin, an acne-type or reddish appearance, blisters, pain, oozing, or opposite – dry and tight skin.

It is possible to develop allergies to any of the usual UV-blocking chemicals or even to "inactive" ingredients of the lotion or fragrance. People who develop allergic reactions should seek advice from a dermatologist. A day before you intend to use a new sunscreen, apply it to a small area on one arm and wait to see if any itching or rash occurs. To prevent allergic reactions to sunscreen, it might help to wash sunscreens off at night.


You can see where this forum thread has gone................ anything and everything can cause problems.

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Old 03-27-2007, 01:05 PM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMits
You can see where this forum thread has gone................ anything and everything can cause problems.
Any ill effects should be confined to the user without subjecting the rest of the racers to them. Suntan lotion side effects would only be subjected to the user, not the entire track.

Ban the use of tire additives and there is no more problem.
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Old 03-27-2007, 01:13 PM   #675
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If you want to do something, go to the Consumer Products Safety Commission and get the manufacturers to put the indredients on the labels.

http://www.consumer.gov/productsafety.htm

Enough of the crap. You don't need to be the ROAR president to make a few phone calls. If you want it changed, then start with that.

I could really care less one way or the other on the issue, but get some proof. Get some hard evidence to back it up. Until then, it's all a bunch of garbage. A small percentage of people that don't feel well isn't going to cut it.

Just as I posted 3 months ago...everyone is all full of talk, but other than bitching on an internet forum, they don't want to do a damned thing.

Maybe I'll round up a bunch of people to complain about the unfair labor practices in Thailand and that we should ban all RC products from that country.
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