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Old 03-22-2007, 06:21 PM   #601
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tempest2000

To answer your question
Quote:
is it coming in contact directly that you have a problem with or is it just being in the air.
....

Both affect me. The skin on my hands become cracked dry, itchy and sometimes the cracked skin bleeds. Since wearing gloves more often than not, I have been able to reduce that issue.

The airborn vapours I can't avoid without wearing one of those high tech masks. I have worn them when truing tires, but for me I don't want to wear those heavy masks all day long.



I agree that tires are a big expense for drivers. There have been many debates on foam v.s. rubber as to which one is cheaper...so i won't go there . I prefer rubber tires personally but not because of a difference in cost.

At the end of the day, drivers only have so much money to spend on this hobby (as do sponsors on their drivers). I am not convinced that people will spend more than what they do today on the hobby. In other words if a driver spends $200 per month on average for this hobby, the driver will continue to spend $200 per month on this hobby on average, because that is what their personal budget can afford (everyone has a different budget). If my theory is essentially correct then just like today, a drivers budget will determine what type of tires they will buy, how often they will buy it and how much the true them down. etc.
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:57 PM   #602
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I think if you force the tire manufacturers to develop another type of tire that will work with no compound that will give them another excuse to raise tire prices even more.
In nitro sedan and 1/8th scale no one uses traction compound! Also there are a lot of tire companies out there now that are selling for very cheap , unlike 1/12th scale tires that are just outrageously priced. I would rather run nitro sedan and use up 2 or 3 sets of tires a day at the price of $9.00 a pair then run 1/12 with compound at $23.00 per pair that you true down to nothing to start with and have to use traction additives.
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:11 PM   #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotmachine
I think if you force the tire manufacturers to develop another type of tire that will work with no compound that will give them another excuse to raise tire prices even more.
In nitro sedan and 1/8th scale no one uses traction compound! Also there are a lot of tire companies out there now that are selling for very cheap , unlike 1/12th scale tires that are just outrageously priced. I would rather run nitro sedan and use up 2 or 3 sets of tires a day at the price of $9.00 a pair then run 1/12 with compound at $23.00 per pair that you true down to nothing to start with and have to use traction additives.
Paul
nitro tires last 2 runs (for me anyways) and 1/12 4 weeks thats running 4 times a month with 5 runs on them a week
ok maybe in nitro they may last all day but only 5 runs max.
hour long main or 30 min 1 set
some times hour long 2 sets
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:16 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotmachine
In nitro sedan and 1/8th scale no one uses traction compound!
I ,and many others I know, use traction additives on nitro sedans.
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:19 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKA
I ,and many others I know, use traction additives on nitro sedans.
why
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:33 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotmachine
I think if you force the tire manufacturers to develop another type of tire that will work with no compound that will give them another excuse to raise tire prices even more.
In nitro sedan and 1/8th scale no one uses traction compound! Also there are a lot of tire companies out there now that are selling for very cheap , unlike 1/12th scale tires that are just outrageously priced. I would rather run nitro sedan and use up 2 or 3 sets of tires a day at the price of $9.00 a pair then run 1/12 with compound at $23.00 per pair that you true down to nothing to start with and have to use traction additives.
Paul
The reason nitro tires are so cheap in because they go directly from manufacturer to consumer or from manufacturer to online shop to consumer. This is possible because most nitro tracks do not have an on site hobby shop. 1/12 and tc racing/tracks most of the time, have an on site hobby shop and the tires go from manufacturer, distributor,hobby shop and consumer. There for the tires will be more expensive. All the chains involved need to be able to make money so they can keep the doors open. Most shops can't buy tires for 9.00 a set. If your nitro track has an on site hobby shop I can bet you are not buying tires from them for 9.00 a pair. More than likely you are getting them over seas or directly from the manufacturer. The 1/12 tires are not over priced they are priced reasonable for going through the proper channels. Even though you should buy from your local track to support them to have a place to race you can buy most carpet tires from an on line hobby shop for 14.00 a pr or so. I race both nitro and 1/12 and I know nitro is a lot more expensive to run than 1/12 racing as a whole. So if tires cost you more you'll probably be saving somewhere else.

Paul
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:45 AM   #607
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The interesting thing about foams is I decided to buy a set early November and that was it. I have only ran races with them no practice. After 9 races later or finishing all 27 heats and mains they are still running strong with no truing. I wanted to true them straight last month and dug out my Maxmod but the shaft was not small enough. As far as competitiveness it has not been a problem each week, unless I get lazy and don't maintain my car. I still like rubbers but the longevity for foam can be there, especially with my microscopic budget.

Probably our races have the best indicator for testing with no compound. The 4 rolls of carpet are rolled on a gym floor for each race. They are also stored underneath a stage which is right above the boiler room. So each time the carpet is dried with no compound residue. I know with stock rubber even with compound the car is loose. Perhaps a softer foam with no compound might be a right direction for stock carpet. For stock outdoors I prefer rubber, unless I cannot keep up with stock foams.
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:04 AM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Ko
The interesting thing about foams is I decided to buy a set early November and that was it. I have only ran races with them no practice. After 9 races later or finishing all 27 heats and mains they are still running strong with no truing. I wanted to true them straight last month and dug out my Maxmod but the shaft was not small enough. As far as competitiveness it has not been a problem each week, unless I get lazy and don't maintain my car. I still like rubbers but the longevity for foam can be there, especially with my microscopic budget.

Probably our races have the best indicator for testing with no compound. The 4 rolls of carpet are rolled on a gym floor for each race. They are also stored underneath a stage which is right above the boiler room. So each time the carpet is dried with no compound residue. I know with stock rubber even with compound the car is loose. Perhaps a softer foam with no compound might be a right direction for stock carpet. For stock outdoors I prefer rubber, unless I cannot keep up with stock foams.
This statement is totally relative to who your racing AKO. If you were running at H&H, Trackside, or even IRP when it was open there is no way that an untrued pair of foams would be competitive in the stock foam class that day. Plus you said you didn't use compound outdoors which is cool but didn't you also so you mainly ran Mabuchi silver cans outdoors? Those would be so slow you really wouldn't be breaking the tires out as much either. So you comparison/statement really doesn't apply.



I'm a fan of no paragon or heck no compound at all except Sun Tan Lotion.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:02 AM   #609
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Wasn't there a post a ways back from a European or Australian about the compounds they changed to and it seemed better. Wondering if anyone can fill us in on that.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:42 AM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashrcracer
is you 18th scale 4wd? or 2wd? if it's 4wd there is your traction and I bet the weight is balanced 50/50 or somewhat close. all the weight on a 12th or what would you figure guys 25/75 rear bias. so the front tires do not have enough weight on them to warm up. plus you are still at a power different in 12th vs 18th. put a mamba system in your 18th and try to hold on. then you'll know what it's like to have a 8x1 in a 12th scale. and I don't consider 18th scale racing that's playing the surfaces are bumpy enough for 12th scale a normal carpet track is like offroad for a 18th scale.
Don't confuse grip with balance. If tyres don't give grip the car will slide out. 4WD does not prevent that. The point I made was that I get just about the same grip levels with rubber tyres as I get with foam tyres. I also get the same balance. So with the right rubber tyre compounds I see no reason why you could not get sufficient grip and the right balance with a 12th scale pan car.

With regards to motors, I compare the 18th scale foam and rubber performance with the same motor, i.e. I can compare the results quite well. I also know a little about speed as I have raced 12th scale mod for years and still do occasionally. I am convinced rubber tyres can be made to work on a 12th scale. Whether that is where we want to go is a different matter.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:56 AM   #611
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Same amount of grip from rubber to foam? Well, I dunno about that.....I don't even think its remotely close, especially on carpet......hence why even the pro's are 1 second slower on rubber than foam on the same track....

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Old 03-23-2007, 11:02 AM   #612
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Hi Silver,

I think you mean this one I did a few days ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSpencer
Hi

Just out of interest I thought you might to know what happened over here..

A few years ago we were all running Paragon (or similar)

Very shortly before a 1/12 Euro's the organisers announced there was going to be an odourless addative supplied to all the competitors, and that's what we all had to use.

Caused an interesting discussion, along the lines of the previous pages..
Not popular with the drivers or the country reps, but the organising club made the call and it was just tough, accept their decision or don't go.

I was extreamly upset, vocally so, and as it turned out very very wrong indeed...

Within a few weeks of going to that event, the drivers in the UK 1/12 scene had voted 'Odourless addatives only' for their nationals - myself included.

Within another few months EFRA had adopted the same rule for the following Euro's.

Both the UK (BRCA) and EFRA now operate the same system, there are several different brands on the list, the events are pleasent places to be, you can even call in a bar or a restaurant on the way home without everybody else their wondering what ailment you must have to smell that bad

Now I'm not saying the grip is the same (though probably not that much different) and I'm not saying that the odourless addative is actually any 'safer' or not. But it makes a huge difference to the perception of the event and certainly the number of racers and the attraction of the class has improved.

Suggest you just try it sometime, it's a risk for an event organiser, but one that's well worth taking.

This is the current BRCA 1/12 section rule:-
(Also now used for most other electric racing indoors in the Uk, including TC's)


Additives for the 2006/7 season are still to be only of the odourless variety: -

Those found so far: -

Corally TC2 (Jack the Gripper) Silver can - pink writing (13779)
LRP Top Traction (Blue Factor) White can - blue writing (6501)
Orion Street Juice (TC Traction F1) clear bottle - purple writing (44101)
Orion Foam Juice Formula clear bottle yellow writing (44105)
CS Grip Tyre Conditioner High Grip clear bottle white label (C6400)
- Or short tin can - white and yellow label (C6400)
The packaging of the CS addative changed -same part number, two types of container

If you have another odourless additive you would like checked as being ok this can be done by giving it or sending it to the committee (via the eligibility officer please) However don't expect it to be done on the day at a national, we'll need a couple of weeks to check it (chemically and on the track)

(This is because certain additives when mixed on a track can destroy the grip for everybody present, those listed above are all known to work together ok)
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:08 AM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus
This statement is totally relative to who your racing AKO. If you were running at H&H, Trackside, or even IRP when it was open there is no way that an untrued pair of foams would be competitive in the stock foam class that day. Plus you said you didn't use compound outdoors which is cool but didn't you also so you mainly ran Mabuchi silver cans outdoors? Those would be so slow you really wouldn't be breaking the tires out as much either. So you comparison/statement really doesn't apply.



I'm a fan of no paragon or heck no compound at all except Sun Tan Lotion.
If it is the way they true it, down to nothing... probably not. To have a well running car locally you really don't need to do that.

Outdoors racing last summer I raced in open mod, stock and Mabuchi with no compound. The cars hooked up well and I don't recall playing with my setups to get the cars to work. I also have much experience on the Tamiya test track running GT1 (mod, 23t and 19t) and GT2 (mab 1st time last year), no compound. Usually I just clean the tires and go. Mabuchi is not really that slow comparitive times would get me into the stock A or within a lap of stock TQ.

Heard alot about suntan lotion, have not been brave enough to try it, except on myself....
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:12 AM   #614
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I dunno jack the gripper has a smell whenever I have used it......I would just say it radiates WAY less than Paragon......

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Old 03-23-2007, 11:29 AM   #615
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The bad component in Paragon is the Lacquer thinner. This is a volatile chemical that evaoprate at a low temp and lingers.

Gripper has a diffrent less volatile solvent in it. It stays in the can and on the tires rather than evaporating into the air.

The suntan lotion work on foam on asphat and I am sure that it would work ok on carpet. Suntan lotion doesnt work on rubber tires.

Martin - Do you have an adverse reaction to TQ traction compounds? I remember them working ok back when we used it at the Novak racers before Gripper. TQ stuff is based on orange oils. People can still have topical reactions to orange oils but major systemic reactions are a lot less likely.
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