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Old 04-06-2006, 12:11 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mason
let's add to the list.

Lubricants and Greases
Loctite
Paint
Solder/flux
CA

Forgot to add the food at the Snowbirds hotel to your list.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:11 PM   #47
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Get your gloves and call Matt Francis he is the number one hater of buggy grip..He was trying to get the owner of Sactown off road race way to bann it, I would rather bann the crybabies and find a new harmless hobby...jsut my .02....CBin
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:20 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
coz they have a secret ingredient which other company`s could use

Yes I understand that and that is the answer they gave when I asked through a distrubutor about a year ago.

I just got off the phone with the Tracktac company and they have an approach that can get around your point. There is a HMIS (hazardous materials information sheet?) safety rating in the us that rates how toxic these chemical are on a scale of 0 to 4. with 0 being the least toxic. Tracktac does not use any chemicals with a rating greater than 1. So the manufactures could infact advertise that they don't exceed leve 0 or level 1 or whatever as a way to differentiate their product in the market.

I want to try some of the tracktac product but they don't ship directly to Canada due to the complexities of paperwork. If anyone in the buffalo area (perhaps a local track) could order some on mybehalf I could come down and pick it up. The owner even makes a water based version of his product that is not commercially available for a friend of his that does some rc racing.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
if you really want to know what chemicals are in any product sold to consumers you can request a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from the manufacturer of the items. They legally can't say no or they don't have one.

Lowes and Home Depot carry them for everything they sell in their stores including simple items like bleach and glass cleaner. you can request them at the service counter.

if the manufacturer refuses to supply a MSDS you can report them to OSHA with your complaint. having a MSDS for the chemical items you sell it not optional, there are Codes of Federal Regulations (CFRs) governing this issue and are laws.
hmmm...that's good to know. When I talked with TrackTac they said the only thing that the US law required them to do in terms of labeling the product is to identify if the product contains anything that causes cancer.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
To be honest......

I don't think that any health problems are actually related to the "oil of wintergreen" but instead to the "carrier/solvent" used to get the oil of winter green into the tire. I think this holds true for all of the compounds available. These are the chemicals that are much more likely to cause health problems. I mean..... it is approved for use in things like Ben Gay so I don't think it going to kill anyone.
You are right, it is the transport agent that is more deadly..............
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
To be honest......

I don't think that any health problems are actually related to the "oil of wintergreen" but instead to the "carrier/solvent" used to get the oil of winter green into the tire. I think this holds true for all of the compounds available. These are the chemicals that are much more likely to cause health problems. I mean..... it is approved for use in things like Ben Gay so I don't think it going to kill anyone.

I am not sure how you can say that the oil of wintergreen is not causing any of the health problems given the official warnings about these products.


(1) methyl salicylate (synthetic oil of wintergreen)


Health Hazards Acute & Chronic: MAY BE IRRITATING TO SKIN/EYES.HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED.DRINKING RELATIVELY SMAL AMTS (10-30ML)HAS CAUSED POISONING & DEATH SIMILAR TO THAT SEEN IN ASPIRIN POISONING.

Signs & Symptoms of Overexposure:
TARGET ORGANS EFFECTS:REPEATED DAILY APPLICATION OF LG AMTS TO SKIN OF RABBITS HAS CAUSED KIDNEY DMG.EFFECTS IN HUMANS UNK.EXCESSIVE EXPO MAY RESULT IN SIMILAR EFFECTS.REPEATED DOSING ORALLY/DERMALLY OF LG AMTS TO RATS HAS CAUSED REPRODUCTIVE EFFECTS.EFFECTS IN HUMAN ARE UNK.EXCESSIVE EXPO MAY RESULT IN SIMILAR EFFECTS
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:54 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Slotmachine
You are right, it is the transport agent that is more deadly..............

What is a transport agent, and what makes it worse than things like Oil of wintergreen?
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
What is a transport agent, and what makes it worse than things like Oil of wintergreen?
Transpost agent/carrier agent......

Think lighter fluid/kerosene/laquer thinner/etc. Much more deadly and much more likely to be the cause of skin irritation and alergic reactions. These are the chemicals that take/carry the softening agent (oil of wintergreen/whatever) into the rubber of the tire.

Do you have a negative reaction to Ben Gay? That would answer the question about oil of wintergreen for you personally. Any of the "Heat" or "Deep Heating Rub" or other sore muscle ointments actually have amounts of this chemical in them and are not considered "hazardous".
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
Transpost agent/carrier agent......

Think lighter fluid/kerosene/laquer thinner/etc. Much more deadly and much more likely to be the cause of skin irritation and alergic reactions. These are the chemicals that take/carry the softening agent (oil of wintergreen/whatever) into the rubber of the tire.

Do you have a negative reaction to Ben Gay? That would answer the question about oil of wintergreen for you personally. Any of the "Heat" or "Deep Heating Rub" or other sore muscle ointments actually have amounts of this chemical in them and are not considered "hazardous".
Thanks...

I may be old, but not that old that I use Ben Gay lol. In the link below is an MSDS sheet for Wintergreen which indicates that too much exposure can can serios issues with your kidney, skin etc. So as this thread has already indicated it is the amount of exposure that is the issue. Is it possible that we get a lot more exposure through use of paragon over a multi year period going to the track once or twice a week than the average use of ben gay? Is the level of wintergreen in Ben Gay more or less than Paragon? I don't know the answer to these questions, but I do know that racers skin is affected by this stuff.


hexans msds : http://solvents.conocophillips.com/p...anes/Index.htm

wintergreen msds : http://www.cumberlandswan.com/wgoil.pdf

It looks like the hexans are potentially more dangerous than the wintergreen according to these msds sheets.
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:28 PM   #55
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I would myself be more concerned with the chemicals we are exposed to daily in soaps, deodorants, shampoo's, toothpastes etc.
Not to mention food!
Some of the stuff in these are downright dangerous and yet we think nothing of applying them all over our bodies once twice or even 3 times a day in the shower

At least your traction compounds are only used maybe once or twice a week.
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopedeloop
I would myself be more concerned with the chemicals we are exposed to daily in soaps, deodorants, shampoo's, toothpastes etc.
Not to mention food!
Some of the stuff in these are downright dangerous and yet we think nothing of applying them all over our bodies once twice or even 3 times a day in the shower

At least your traction compounds are only used maybe once or twice a week.
always a good point....but...my skin irritations always flare up big time when using these traction compounds and my breathing become wheezeing when I am around this stuff for a weekend....this does not happen if I stay away from the traction compounds. I took a month off before vegas last year and had not felt that good in 2 years.
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:36 PM   #57
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wow martin thats BAD.

Traction compounds are banned over here so its really not an issue for us.

Maybe you need to ban it there too. At least running with out it your all still on a level playing field. Just have to slow for the corners a tad more is all
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopedeloop
wow martin thats BAD.

Traction compounds are banned over here so its really not an issue for us.

Maybe you need to ban it there too. At least running with out it your all still on a level playing field. Just have to slow for the corners a tad more is all

Hey Loopedeloop,

Maybe I should move to newzealand .. I suggested at the begining of this thread and in the IIC thread that we should ban traction compound but most thought it was a bad idea because the grip would not be high enough and would be too hard to inforce. I think the grip thing can be overcome, but how do you guys deal with inforcing the no traction compound rule?
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
Maybe I should move to newzealand :)..

Best post, I have read in this thread.
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:54 PM   #60
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Mate, I truly dont know how they deal with it.

I guess its pretty obvious at a tech inspection if your car smells like deepheat or simple green lol . I'm not sure why it was banned in the 1st place.

Quite honestly I dont even know if the stuff is available over the counter here as I havent ever tried to buy it and have never felt the need to.
You just have to try to make the best of your setup.

I know at club level it isnt and in my experience hasnt ever been an issue.

Maybe some other kiwi driver would care to chip in here with an answer for you.

I can see why there would be resistance to banning it their cause its hard to take a step back when you are used to having/using the stuff.

I do believe though that changing the rules at roar (or whatever rules you run) level is the best way to deal with it.

The one thing you can guarantee is that the companies that make the stuff only care about your dollar not the long term effects on your health.

ps. wish you did live here mate, I need setup help lol, cant sem to get traction
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