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Old 03-21-2007, 11:55 PM   #571
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer
thank you eddie yes it was directed at the group.

so you ban all tire dope for TC and run 1 run foams due to the manufactors making the foam sooo soft that it will wear .50 in one run. just remember to gear up one tooth before you go out. but as you go out you haven't banned it for 12th scale so the 12th scales put it down and the sniffer picks up that you have dope on your TC tire. DQed every TC in the race.

like I said build a better mouse trap. you don't have to test it on the track you just need a new set of tires and a durometer and a stop watch. I'm sure the major manufactures would help you out martin with scratch and dent tires to test on. so you put something on, check it's softness, time it check it 5 and 8 minutes later. the only thing is you would have to use paragon for your reference. might need a friend to help.

had the camera for a year still haven't figured it out thinking of buying a slr before vegas and elimiate that problem. oh wait I got to buy some more one run tires.
if you ban additives for tc you would need to ban for 1/12th scale. both classes could try softer compounds. yes i think the tires will wear faster for two reasons..one they are softer and two..with less grip the tires will slide more causing them to shed foam more quickly. - makes for good sales for the track owners....earlier someone (RCMITS post 565) posted a comment saying that we should first focus on keeping track owners in business...etc etc...seems to me that selling more tires would help that.
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:24 AM   #572
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quit complaining. and grow up... by the time it will affect you youll already be old or already dead... how many of you posters smoke . im sure smoking is already fifty times worse than tc.. so dont worry about it..

you guys are just being picky over cautious pricks that make it hard on manf. track owners. and hobbiest alike..

grow some.. it wont hurt you.
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:07 AM   #573
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everyone complains about paragon, but I've never had problems with it and don't mind the smell...

however, jack the gripper gives me bad headaches just being around it. just because it doesn't smell like wintergreen doesn't mean it can't have adverse effects.

as for banning all compounds... I'd probably just quit racing.

I own a hobbyshop and get everything at cost, but tires are expensive enough as is without really replacing them every run. You can get 2 or 3 decent runs at a big race if the bite is up no problem since the more bite means less tire wear.

If you run tires soft enough to not need compound they will drive the costs up of racing probably double just in tires alone even at the club level. Sure maybe the hobbyshop benefits, but the racers will get tired of paying it. If you lose racers in the process you aren't helping anyone.

wear a respirator or get a vader helmet or something. Don't punish the rest of us paragon junkies LOL its the only high some of us get that don't smoke pot or drink on a reg basis LOL
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:03 AM   #574
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This thread makes me want to quit R/C for entirely different reasons than those mentioned.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:31 AM   #575
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Smoking and traction compounds are what drove me out of the indoor tracks. If we want to grow this hobby, banning this stuff would be the first step. It isn't exactely a family setting with people smoking a pack per hour and using tons of chemicals on their cars. Give me a break, they are just TOYS!!
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:36 AM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000
I own a hobbyshop and get everything at cost, but tires are expensive enough as is without really replacing them every run. You can get 2 or 3 decent runs at a big race if the bite is up no problem since the more bite means less tire wear.

If you run tires soft enough to not need compound they will drive the costs up of racing probably double just in tires alone even at the club level. Sure maybe the hobbyshop benefits, but the racers will get tired of paying it. If you lose racers in the process you aren't helping anyone.
yes the hobby is expensive and yes it would be expensive for the drivers if we had tires that were only really good for one run, maybe two runs...wait...we already have that for both rubber and foam tires. If you wan't max performance today, you need new tires every one or two rounds.
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Last edited by Martin Crisp; 03-22-2007 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:52 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by chewiefttc4
quit complaining. and grow up... by the time it will affect you youll already be old or already dead... how many of you posters smoke . im sure smoking is already fifty times worse than tc.. so dont worry about it..

you guys are just being picky over cautious pricks that make it hard on manf. track owners. and hobbiest alike..

grow some.. it wont hurt you.
Believe it or not, I actually do get why you feel this way. I understand that for some they love the grip we have today and don't feel sick using the products. I can understand why people wanting to ban this stuff would frustrate you.

If you have not voted on the poll (see link in my signature) yet, please do so, so we capture your point of view.
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:49 AM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashrcracer
and since you seem to be centered on only touring car just as 12th scale is making a resurgence in the market you need to think outside your little realm. if you get rid of traction additives and you will finally put the nail in 12th scale coffin

signed 21 year 12th scale driver.
paragon user and abuser since 1986

.
Nash, like you I've been a 1/12th scaler at heart since 1989. This is really not centered on TC....at our local indoor track...almost everyone has moved back to 1/11th scale and stopped TC...(probably cause 1/12th scale is that much more enjoyable). So I understand the impact a bann of tire compounds would have...but I also know that those racers who are committed to the joys of racing would find the set-up and get back-up to speed.

The biggest challenge we are facing is the fact that there a number of racers who are feeling the effects of the chemicals we use, especially when exposed "indoors". Some of us have taken measures to reduce the use of motor sprays but we can't seem to break away from tire additives. Unfortunatly, I'm not going to be able to test sun-tan lotion with 1/12th carpet racing because the carpet at our local track in soaked with paragon and I'm not going back there and getting sick...so my testing wll take place outdoors, when the seasons starts again.

I admit, the internet and forums like this have made it possible from many racers throughout the country to share their concerns...back when we started racing, we were not able to share our concerns as openly as we can today...

Eddie made a comment earlier about off-road guys racing indoors using nitril gloves, respirators, masks and protective eye wear...Do we really need to go to such extremes to enjoy racing? Imagine what's going through a parents mind after purchasing their child an RTR and bringing him/her to an indoor race track and seeing the precautionary measures needed to go racing.

You brought up a the concept of a 1-run foam tire for 1/12th scale if no additives are used as the tire will have to be super soft to bite...I'm not entirely convinced that would be case...however, is it that much different than what we have now...you purchase a pack of 1/12th scale tires and have to cut them down to reduce traction rolling in high bite corners. In order to be competetive, you effectively reduced the usage life of the tire because your cutting them down. Makes more sense to develop a safe and usable product.

I'm confident that open forum discussions like this will lead to pro-active changes...I'm actually going to make some calls to Jaco and Parma and ask them there thoughts of producing a tire additive free tire and if its possible.
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:52 AM   #579
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There are many choices out there now for traction compounds as there are for motor cleaning sprays. Apparently I'm alergic to certain motor sprays because after a weekend of cleaning and racing my hands get a slight rash. The fact is that racing of ANY kind has dangerous chemicals in the air. You take the precautions you can and use the best products to get the best results. It's just one of those necessary things, you race anything you're going to inhale or get chemicals on you. If more people in our hobby would take care of themselves physically maybe the chemicals in traction compound wouldn't be "the straw that broke the camels back". I also play paintball and inhaling the CO2 that bursts out of the barrel every millisecond certainly isn't very healthy for me either indoors, and now with Nitrogen becoming more popular it's only going to get worse...but you don't hear paintballers complaining about chest pains from inhaling compressed gases. I'm sure we've all gotten a nose full of nitro-exhaust at trackside when marshalling, especially if it's a big race with lots of guys running really rich mixtures. Should we outlaw nitro fuel until companies make cleaner burning scentless fuel?

This just seems like witch hunting to me. Why don't we ban motor lathes at trackside until they all come with a metal shavings shield? Why not outlaw flamable comm drops? Maybe outlaw our controllers because they might cause cancer? If traction compound gets banned it's just going to snowball until everyone either stays away from R/C's for health reasons or just don't want to deal with the three page list of stuff they aren't allowed to use.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:11 AM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000
everyone complains about paragon, but I've never had problems with it and don't mind the smell...

however, jack the gripper gives me bad headaches just being around it. just because it doesn't smell like wintergreen doesn't mean it can't have adverse effects.

as for banning all compounds... I'd probably just quit racing.

I own a hobbyshop and get everything at cost, but tires are expensive enough as is without really replacing them every run. You can get 2 or 3 decent runs at a big race if the bite is up no problem since the more bite means less tire wear.

If you run tires soft enough to not need compound they will drive the costs up of racing probably double just in tires alone even at the club level. Sure maybe the hobbyshop benefits, but the racers will get tired of paying it. If you lose racers in the process you aren't helping anyone.

wear a respirator or get a vader helmet or something. Don't punish the rest of us paragon junkies LOL its the only high some of us get that don't smoke pot or drink on a reg basis LOL

tempest2000: I understand exactly you concern being a HS owner...I worked at Bruckner Hobbies for over 10 years and still help out from time to time and get all my stuff just above cost...(everyone is entitled to a small profit)...

I understand your point...but is the decline in HS sales because the cost of RC has gone up or is it because internet sales have made consumers better shoppers? All the racers I know, hardly ever shop at their LHS and pay full price...the "racers" work deals....its the average hobbist who comes back to the LHS and pays the regular price for products...which are mostly RTR type kits and never find their way to a "race" track...the key to any successful HS is to make the RTR guys happy...

You can get a RTR kit thats very competitive at a very reasonable price...its the "racers" equipment prices that are through the roof...now a newbee who wants to get into racing looks at the cost and says no-way not for me...they stick with the RTR...get bored and leave the hobby all together. I know this is the case having dealings with those in the industry over the past 15 years.

You say Jack the gripper gives you head aches...imagine if everyone at the track used Jack...you'd probably not want to hang around there much...so its the same for most of us with Paragon...I've actually prefer to use the Niftech stuff as it does not bother me...but being in a closed environment with everyone else using paragon gets me just as sick....
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Old 03-22-2007, 10:39 AM   #581
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i really dont see a solution for this
only if 1/12 ends and tc just runs rubber with no goop.
or we all just run off road and i know there will be something about this too.
or some one make tire goop that is not bad for us that works ok,even a little grip would be ok and we could live with it.
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:02 AM   #582
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The solution is to limit our usage of foam by switching TC back to rubbers and ban all compounds or at least toxic ones. The real problem is how to get everyone to agree to this and police nontoxic chemicals if permitted.

If we were to restrict tire additives to nontoxic ones only, I think the only viable way to police it would be for the tracks to provide a spec compound for racers to apply in a designated area. Taking the traction compound away from the racer's possession is the only way to control what they put on their tires.

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Old 03-22-2007, 11:44 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
All the racers I know, hardly ever shop at their LHS and pay full price...the "racers" work deals....its the average hobbist who comes back to the LHS and pays the regular price for products...which are mostly RTR type kits and never find their way to a "race" track...the key to any successful HS is to make the RTR guys happy...
I can assure you that Tempest doesnt sell his stuff at retail or anywhere near it. In fact most of the stuff in his shop is as cheap as on line stuff!!

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Old 03-22-2007, 11:49 AM   #584
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
I can assure you that Tempest doesnt sell his stuff at retail or anywhere near it. In fact most of the stuff in his shop is as cheap as on line stuff!!

EA
Your right...no one sells products at full retail...perhaps what I should have said was average HS prices. Every HS provides some type of discount...the interent companies have taken it down one step further. (by internet this also includes sales outside the US)
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:04 PM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
Your right...no one sells products at full retail...perhaps what I should have said was average HS prices. Every HS provides some type of discount...the interent companies have taken it down one step further. (by internet this also includes sales outside the US)
Yea I think that by Skeen pricing his stuff very good has helped him with awesome race crowd's in offroad this winter.....50 was about the smallest and up to 120 one week for indoor offroad and most of those being Nitro.

Hey Martin how do the rubber tire addative's affect you. Such as Buggy Grip 2? I know its pretty strong but I have never heard of guys having problems with it other than its odor..

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