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Old 03-20-2007, 11:33 AM   #511
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I've only been to 2 big races (Novak: Jack the Gripper & Nats: Paragon) so my experience is limited, but. The amount of souce applied created a low hanging haze at both events.

Ventilation IS key. Issue seems to be that to really get a place ventilated, it would drop the temperature in the room (ie. nats) and drop the traction. CEFX had a HUGE garage door at one end and a front door + another garage door but due to popular concensus did not air out the place for fear of loosing grip. Nothing negative to say about CEFX, Josh or anyone, but it's seems to be a good example of the ventilation issue.

There seem to be many good ideas about chemical controll that would be easy to do: paragon towells in plastic bags, etc. I also noticed that durring uncontrolled practice nearly every racer sauced at the same time creating a wave of the compound haze. so perhaps something along the lines of controlled saucing? I really don't know, but am interested and wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:40 AM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb
I think we should all use sun tan lotion. It is made to be put on your skin in the first place and it actually does work alright. Our local club used it for a few years without any adverse effects. I think using an oil based product like tire tweek is not good for us either.

What would you guys think about sun tan lotion?
We use suntan lotion all the time out doors right now. It actually works better than paragon. Sometimes we run paragon with suntan lotion over it.

About 18 years ago I ran at an indoor track that did not allow smelly traction compounds (it was in a Mall). We used Go-Jo hand cleaner or suntan lotion on out foam tires on carpet and it was good. No one was sliding or spinning out. This was on a 1st gen RC10L with Green foam tires front and rear....old school!
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:12 PM   #513
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Martin, the poll's looking fairly conclusive already.

Maybe theres lots of people that dont like tire sauce but didnt want to speak out on this thread for fear of getting flamed (maybe).

Take heart mate, you obviously arent alone in this.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:09 PM   #514
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thanks mate!

Yes, putting some numbers on the opinions does help see some trends.


Although 85 votes does not speak for everyone, one could start to see a trend towards the following...

* doing nothing is not an option as less than 1/3 think we should do nothing.
* removing the compounds all together seems to have the most support.
* moving to rubber tires does not seem to be popular
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:25 PM   #515
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I race 1/12th scale, so not racing foam tires for me is not an option.

What I have found at our track, which is a Ground Effects track, when grip is low, tires wear at a phenominal rate. While at the Nats, I happened to be talking to the ROAR prez, and he mentioned that he wanted to remove all traction compounds from the big events. By this, I can only assume he was talking about level 4 events and higher. To me, buying a set of tires goes with the territory when you are talking about racing. However, I think that if I had to buy a new set of tires every day I went to race, I would quit the hobby altogether and finish getting my pilots license, and take up diving again. I love racing, and it would sadden me to give it up. There has to be a good alternative if we have to stop using volatile chemical compounds.

There was a track in Nashua, NH that only allowed house compound back in 90 - 92. It was milky white and thin like water. It was oderless, and the owner wouldn't tell anyone what was in it. I suspect that it was lotion based... It did work, only it took a while to build up. He held the regionals there, people complained at first, then just got down to racing... Grip really was not an issue for that race. When I went to Cleveland later that year, it was a surprise to me to traction roll at the end of the straight my first trip around the track. So it may be that we just got used to driving in low bite, I don't remember high tire wear being a problem at the track in Nashua, however, it was over 15 years ago (damn, I'm getting old).
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:42 PM   #516
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Changing to chemicals that are less toxic is an interesting idea, but in addition to my comments above, I wonder if it would be harder to police only allowing specific additives than to police no additives. If you only allow specific additives, then as long as you use an odourless additives no one would know if you are using a cheater additive or not.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:43 PM   #517
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I just noticed this thread, and I think there are some very valid points(although I didn't read them all) I have been a racer since the late eighties and I work in the auto industry as a designer, which brings me in contact with lots of industrial level chemicals. I am not a chemist, but earlier posts talked about the carrier agents being stuff like laquer thinner and such. This stuff is nasty and will kill you or at the very least give you brain damage. My issue with all of this is how much difference does doping vs not make in the way the car handles? If you clean the tires with a product like simple green , they actually get quite sticky. I run rubber myself, and really hate foams with the exception of 10th nitro and 12th carpet (I run both of those as well). My opinion is , if no one dopes then everyone is dealing with the same condition. It may require a different set up, and may require some discipline with the trigger. For years we ran Road Wizards in unprepped parking lots with no sauce, it took a little running, but eventually a line got run in and the course was drivable. Of course this wasnt as fast as prepped asphalt or carpet where you can lay down all the power you can make, but you learned how to set up to pass and how to feather the throttle. To me todays racing is too squirt and turn. There is not alot of skill involved , you bolt on a set of foams, dope the hell out of them and the car is hooked. The days of tire warmers and tip toeing for a couple of laps to wait for the heat to build in the tires need to come back. The bottom line is two fold, A. If the sauce softens rubber, there's a good chance that it will do the same to your organs, and B. Is getting a toy car to drive around a a maze on a rug 1/2 a second a lap faster worth dying for? If it is, then there are some seriously screwed up people on this thread.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:57 PM   #518
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dose any1 know whats in TQ8
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:02 PM   #519
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If you run in low traction conditions, you will wear out tires at an alarming rate. The push and the scrub will wear tires down like using a rubber eraser on 80 grit sand paper. How expensive do you want this hobby to become.

If tire companies can make tires that wear like iron, I would be all for waiting a couple of laps for traction to build in the tires. ATM I see it as no option for not doping tires. I don't know what to replace the GE with, as all the others seem to be just as harmful.
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:48 AM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb
I think we should all use sun tan lotion. It is made to be put on your skin in the first place and it actually does work alright. Our local club used it for a few years without any adverse effects. I think using an oil based product like tire tweek is not good for us either.

What would you guys think about sun tan lotion?
I'd be interested in trying suntan lotion, what brand and formula base do you suggest?
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:56 AM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70
I race 1/12th scale, so not racing foam tires for me is not an option.

There was a track in Nashua, NH that only allowed house compound back in 90 - 92. It was milky white and thin like water. It was oderless, and the owner wouldn't tell anyone what was in it. I suspect that it was lotion based... It did work, only it took a while to build up. He held the regionals there, people complained at first, then just got down to racing... Grip really was not an issue for that race.

I don't remember high tire wear being a problem at the track in Nashua, however, it was over 15 years ago (damn, I'm getting old).
I attended that regional event in Nashua...still have the trophy somewhere. I remember having to purchase a house brand tire additive...that was a long time ago...I even remember driving back that weekend with Steve Maslin, if you knew the guy and commenting on how we don't smell like winter green...made for a pleasant 6+hour car ride home...talk about old days. I think I ran an original corally SP back then.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:05 AM   #522
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This thread is both informative, funny, and sad. I do a lot things I probably shouldn't and exposing my kids just ain't cool. It gives me something to think about.

The funny thing is all the posts telling this guy to STFU and quit whining. Ignore your symptoms so we can go on with biz as usual.


Sad thing is most people wouldn't look Martin in the eye and be so callous or condescending.

How many times can one mention 10k fan?
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:14 AM   #523
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SPF45, and the cheapest ,runniest stuff you can find...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
I'd be interested in trying suntan lotion, what brand and formula base do you suggest?
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:45 AM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacsac
How many times can one mention 10k fan?
Awesome....
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:49 AM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter
SPF45, and the cheapest ,runniest stuff you can find...
Ok??? Am I getting a lotion or oil? How do you apply? 5, 10, 15 minutes before you race, let it sit and wipe off? Sorry to ask the questions, just never used the stuff before...

wonder if nitro guys use the stuff?
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